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Another option to help out some of the cost issues and let everyone have competition and fun is in the not talked about yet classes that Troy proposed.(at least I don't think its been talked about) This could be a pretty good time to be thinking of ways to make the very limited budget teams feel like they are more than just revenue to keep the series going. I think its a pretty sure thing that there are going to be a lot of pretty limited budget people in our world for some time to come.
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This is true.
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Well, I doubt the one team left doing this is going to influence a lot of people. I mean they have money and they have the ability to do this most people accept that. The other team that was doing it is gone unfortunately. Outliers. Now there are other teams plowing through RE71’s that are doing well but aren’t using air jacks, air tools, half dozen crew, etc. They are most likely changing one or two tires at a time. The only way to stop that is to settle on a tire or two and ban the others. (Which i am not in favor of)
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National Championship Sonoma Raceway
FlorahDorah replied to FlorahDorah's topic in Race Results and Reports
Yeah I'm glad he didn't hit us either. But that was because of our driver doing the right thing by not turning in and staying out when he heard the lock up of brakes. I don't know what Denny was thinking because he was trying to pass two cars coming into that turn. Our driver thought it was going to be the white car behind him. Was surprised that it was blue. We really need to get a rear camera. Could have been even more hilarious. -
I think the fast teams also forget about the way this looks to new teams. If guy A volunteers at a race and sees a team with all these air jacks and pit crew swapping 4 tires every few stops he might be more inclined to race in a different series. I think the optics don’t look good for our series. Is it going to make me switch series, no. But I do think it looks bad.
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thinksknowledge joined the community
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The real issue is that the teams with a lot of money will use the RE71R to go faster, a good amount faster over time, and have that advantage simple because they have money. Sure, you did well at the 24 and some other races with the RS4 because you all drive really aggressive and fast and if you do not break you do well. At a good amount of races teams that use the RE71R are winning and are really fast because of it. The point is, a few select teams with unlimited fund should not be able to buy the fastest tires that is used up a lot. For me, RS4 is a two weekend tire. It costs us $350 per weekend. RE71R is a 12 tire weekend at $208+ a tire. That is $2496 or $2146 more per weekend to race. That is not even remotely possible. If we could get an entire weekend out of a set of re71r, then maybe.
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Who cares what people run for tires and how many tires they burn through in a race- hasn't kept us off the podium running our 24+ hour tires... The whole thing about tire changes is silly. What is the real issue? Or is it one of those non-issues, but people just need something to beeaatch about...
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Well, all I can say is either with my team or driving with others the last two years without looking at records I have driven cars that used RS4's and finished with I think 4 wins, a couple of P2's and a couple of P3's. Maybe burning through RE71's there may have been even better finishes but I'll take that. It's only one aspect. An important variable no doubt, but there are several others, cost being one of them. Edit: I reserve the right to and may change my mind when we use the RE71's in an actual dry race, it may make me want to jump in there and up the tire budget. If so, it also may change my mind on a petition such as this. But if I do I hope we go about it in a different way then limiting the stop to one tire for reasons previously stated.
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We also believe the RE71R AND the A052 are better in the rain (and snow?) than the RS4. It's highly unlikely that any of them compare to a tire such as a PS4 or Conti Contact Sport in the rain. Considering we have had 3 straight races in the rain we are going to put together a set of rain tires, which we never really seriously considered in the past.
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I do think there are two major points that people are not happy with. Specifically Salheens coming out full bore with pro setup and air guns with a full 5 guys over the wall swapping out all 4 tires in about 30-45 seconds. Them changing tires almost every stint with shaved tires at Nelsons did not help. I think people feel they need to compete with them and do not have the means or money to do so. I know I do not. The second are teams running RE71R or TOYO RR tires that run like half the race and then swap them out. I see the worry there is the speed of the RE71R vs other tires and cost associated with such and mutliple costs as you need extra rims, tire guns, air, ect to get it all done in time. We all boast that we can do it, but when it is like 45-60 seconds in and out that leaves us 4 minutes, 1:30 to fuel 3 jugs and go back and forth with opening and closing the fuel door system. That leaves around 2 minutes, once it all said and done. By the time you drag the equipment out and get the tires on and off you would be very hard pressed to get it all done under 5 minutes with all 4 tires. I have seen it done, but it is close with teams very organized. Things in real life just take longer than people imagine.
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There are folks with $$ to burn for those reduced laptimes, they do not care how long a tire lasts and will never explore a rs4 as they are slower thus pointless to use.
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Said from the man who runs RE71R and changes multiple ones during a race.
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Same experience here. We had to go to RE71 the last couple of races because the RS4 were not available. I liked them, they are fast and because both races were run either partially or fully in the rain I have them to use up whenever we go racing again. But, I'll still go back to the RS4 when they are gone because I liked running all 20 hours of Indy on used RS4's and had tire left afterward.
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My own opinion (which may not be shared by others) At Sebring, on our car, the RE71R is ~1 second faster than the RS4 The RS4 will keep nearly all of its performance until they are dead. I've lapped consistently within 1 second of our fastest lap at Sebring (by @MoparBoyy) on RS4's with over 20 hours on them RE71R will last less than half as long as an RS4, introducing an additional risk during tire changes during any race longer than 7-8 hours
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I get it but my gripe is: Are those other choices decently faster? Do they cost substantially more to run per hr? Do they put others that do not run them at a distinct disadvantage?
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The RS4 is still our tire of choice. We have ran two other tires over the last ~16 months (A052 and RE71R) and it was only because the RS4's were out of stock. I'm absolutely not in favor of implementing any additional restrictions on tires over what there is now.
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ah so 12, so about every 8 hours seems about right.
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335/18 rivals are like $350each.
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This may not work as well in the future the new fast lower life Falken is coming in 15’s with 225 and 245 width. Currently the re71 is just a 205 and that equalizes speed some on the Miata’s and E30.
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That was Denny. He got to buy all new panels for the car after that maneuver. Sorry about that, glad he didn't hit you.
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What would you suggest be done about those that DO benefit by using the super gummies? This one thing is the straw that makes it obvious we will never be with the haves.
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How many tires did he go through for $4k? only 10?
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The hell its not. RS4's are the poop. I give a little prayer every night that Hankook calls me and offers me a tire sponsorship. My car would be painted up with Hankooks logo's before 8am. I love telling people we beat Bill Riley and his pocket book. His tire bill for the 24 was north of $4000 by my calculations. Ours? $250. I do not support the tire rule. I run used tires when possible, particularly for double-8 or other short format races. If I wasn't allowed to change multiple tires per stop without penalty, I would not be able to do this. Therefore, It would increase my tire budget by forcing me to start using new tires for each event. poop, at that point I might as well just join the RE71 crowd. $$
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More stuff to keep up with. Most teams need less to keep up with, not more. Not that we should mimic WRL, but when there is a good idea it's a good idea regardless. They have a rule that after one tire you have to use hand tools only or something similar to that. I always have good ideas after the petitions come out, never when they are to be submitted it seems.
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I love these suggestions to shorten tech time. How do we make this happen? Does it need to be a petition, email blast, new forum thread, etc? I think based on the feedback I’ve seen on the forum and every race that I’ve been in a tech line (>7) the majority believe that tech should just be checking safety items or helping with questions about point values if the team needs it.
