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  2. Unfortunately pain is the only motivator that companies understand. Develop a strategy to cause pain (legal recourse) for insurance and tire shop...then get results.
  3. Alchemy Autosport

    2019 VPI List Is Out!

    My point, to your comment was that V8 cars tend to be more expensive to run/maintain. Hence why teams are opting for other smaller platforms that cost less to run and allow for more development and upgrades within their budget.
  4. WilsonSteele

    Standardized VPi evaluation

    Excellent idea and method to spot unicorns before they cause trouble, and bring new cars / newer models into the VPI in a reasonable manner we need to add in another category, and yes its a pita... -max fittable wheel width / tire width
  5. It’s pretty rare for a team to start with laps and still win, I think an e36 did it last year on the west coast, and a swapped e30 as well? But, there have been quite a few cases (3 in 2017 alone) where 500 point cars won on day 1 of a weekend, carried penalty lap(s) to day 2, and won that as well. So the answer is: yes, cars do win with penalty lap(s), but it isn’t common. Also you can look at race results, in any race where there was more than a 1 lap margin of victory, that car would have still won the race if starting with a penalty lap(s).
  6. Today
  7. SonsOfIrony

    2019 VPI List Is Out!

    How would that be any different than using the lead floor convertible 4 door super winter package weight in the calculator, even when building a ultralight coupe like the E30s do. If you cant beat them, join them.
  8. I took a crack at this awhile ago. I couldn't make it come out so my car had the lowest value so I gave up.
  9. Do any teams out there take laps and are still competitive and or win races? I havent found a way to see the results to see which teams had started out with laps
  10. Black Magic

    Standardized VPi evaluation

    Very curious what ideas you guys come up with on details. This is something several guys i know have floated around, and done well could really be good for the series. We are trying to move to big picture easily enforced tech items\limits, so as you plot this think of how it would be inspected easily without a nascar level post race teardown. We use much of this criteria now when comparing vpi values people have questioned. So it isn't a huge leap. If people would help check, verify and fill in data into an excel sheet on cars that would help a ton. A database in excel format of this stuff could really allow us to look at average value for say a 80s 90s fwd 5 speed mid sized car with 170 ish lbs per gallon and no lsd. If we see an outlier base on that criteria we would know to look harder. What would people think of leaving cars on the list but not showing a vpi until asked\just for cars we race. There might be mathematically more make\model\year options on the list than drivers in the series. We spend alot of time thinking about values for cars no one drives, i would rather think about better matching the few cars we do. On the negative side, many people feel like giving coolers and durability items to cars for free is bad for the series. You would either need to make them open, or put points on cars that have them vs don't. This is outside of the "physics" listing of car attributes. Another example, you might need to allow knuckle\hub swaps for some cars either as a few approved part of the car or reduce points and force that team to buy them. Spec neon comes to mind, those cars were not allowed on track without an upgrade to the acr hub or approved knuckle swap from another car. Do you care if teams make a swap to an equal geometry part to keep their wheels on, or stick to the "didn't pick your car" mantra? Any rules would need to address this in some way.
  11. karman1970

    Non-oe Pistons and points?

    Wait, I thought if we couldn't easily police something then it had to be allowed. Because it's so hard to follow rules and not cheat, you know.
  12. Black Magic

    2019 VPI List Is Out!

    The NATO post showed the same physical tank was used in 87 88 tc and the cars marked as "22.2" gal. It appears the owners manual number may be different, as an attempt to mask the fuel starvation issues when turning. If a tc owner brought the automobile catalog web link and the NATO link it would be hard to tell them definitively no to 22.2 gal. Or they could just run the stock big tank and have that "real" capacity although not as safe as a cell.
  13. @Black Magic You're a good dude. Props to you and the rest of the TAC for doing what you are doing.
  14. I can’t see being allowed to use the trans and VPI of the TC then the fuel and weight of the LX. If so then there is something wrong with the rules. This all goes away if the LX is just put back to where it was at 200 points and the cars do not get screwed in the swap calculator because nobody wants to run an 150 hp TBird.
  15. Originalsterm

    Standardized VPi evaluation

    Aero? Some cars come with wings/spoilers to different degrees.
  16. mindspin311

    Standardized VPi evaluation

    It needs to be done. The arbitrary stuff just sucks. How is the SC300 500pts and an E46 330 530pts. Yet, if you look at the inportant data like HP, TQ, drivetrain layout, fuel capacity, etc. they're essentially equal cars. So is the SC undervalued, or the E46 overvalued?
  17. SonsOfIrony

    Standardized VPi evaluation

    What weight are we using. Factory curb weight? Some percentage of factory? The current made up weights that give luxury cars a huge bonus? Or as raced weights, decided by whom?
  18. Several threads have introduced some interesting thoughts about the direction that future VPi evaluation might take. Black Magic has suggested that equal equipment would be a reasonable means of at least starting the process in a way that gets away from the present method of combining the inherited AIV values that are so highly criticized and the subjective method of assigning values based on guesses and gut reaction. I'll try to paraphrase his suggestion or at least what I think he's suggesting. Use a list of components or attributes that each have an individual value and check off the boxes that each car has, then add up the list to get a base number. 1. Power or power to weight ratio 2. Drive configuration (FWD, RWD) 3. Trans type (auto, manual, 5 speed, etc) 4. Final drive (LSD) 5. Fuel capacity or fuel to weight ratio 6. Weight range (1800-2000 lbs, 2000-2200 lbs, etc) 7. Suspension type (struts, SLA, live axle, IRS, etc) Just a preliminary but hopefully following his thoughts. There will always be arguments about how much each category should be worth; after all, this is Champ. Comments? Can this or something like it get Champ onto a more objective VPi evaluation?
  19. I think he may have been referring to whether or not the RBank car runs a cell? Either way, if anyone wants to distract them from the MustanBird kerfuffle/rile them up then it should really be @MoparBoyy @Snorman and @Snake that should be paged!😄
  20. Black Magic

    2019 VPI List Is Out!

    Solid point on cobra not in technically but raced with a vpi. We gotta do some clean up then. I was suggesting the cobra as a cheaper vpi option to change valvesprings and also get a power bump. Not the ideal cam, but something different and different springs for a net 48 points over explorer. Side note, would a 4.6 sohc or sbc\lt1 be a better choice to allow a cam swap via stock valvetrain? Should be easy feasible to get a t5 on to those engines. Swap calc isn't out yet, but it would set the value for swapping. I would guess a common swap value for both cars, but at this point it is just that, a guess. I can see where a list of fuel capacity would be really helpful, this case in particular. The published specs and the owners manual don't agree for all years, we need somewhere we list what champcar will use as the "agreed" value.
  21. Yes @Black Magic see the second post in the owner's forum. Again, if ChampCar will allow the 22.2 ruling then maybe but then explain why the LX was raised to 300 while the TC is remaining at 200 and in a swap case which car will I have to use when claiming a swap with the TC? Two issues with swapping in the Cobra engine: 1. The car is not on the VPI list, it has been given a VPI value to allow it to race but it has not been added to the list. 2. Using that hp in the current swap calculator adds 98 points.
  22. Gearhead_42

    Fuel Cell advice.

    If I didn't already have a NOS NASCAR cell built and ready to install, I'd go this route for sure... be glad to see another S13 out there, even if we do get shafted relative to the Rx7s 😉 /horsebeating
  23. mhr650

    Fuel Cell advice.

    Best deal I have found for a legal 18 gallon cell. $1200 beats $3000+ every day. https://pyrotectstore.com/product/pyrocell-elite-steel-container
  24. hcsi99

    Fuel Cell advice.

    We will be running a Radium fuel cell with the built in surge tank in 2019. They use Fuel Safe's Enduro Cell that is FIA FT3 certified. No a bad price considering you get the surge tank setup as well. http://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Cell-with-FCST-P893.aspx?ItemId=444300&Kits=2059,2020,2072
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