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Showing content with the highest reputation on 12/01/2019 in all areas

  1. 12 points
    I am waiting for the rest of the board to give feedback on the help ticket item. Bill and I tested it on Thanksgiving and it works great. Good for a checks and balance and an item where rule interpretations or clarifications can be kept public. Think of it as a knowledge base for everyone: members, tech, TAC and board.
  2. 8 points
    Someone a couple of years ago rules-lawyered this like something you or Bill might have done back in 2013. Someone in tech bought it.
  3. 7 points
    TAC is already discussing this as well. I would like to see that closed. I believe the spirit of the rule was not to allow the 2.5" Swift race springs for free, but to allow the same size and shape aftermarket springs like H&Rs or Eibachs. If someone can come up with a better written rule then email me at tyler.pedersen@champcar.org but at least you all know my stance on springgate
  4. 7 points
    So this "help ticket" thing is undoubtedly a step in the right direction, but adding one more small feature would make it infinitely better...those answers/clarifications need to be public. Don't miss this chance to make a huge improvement in transparency for all members.
  5. 6 points
    In my personal opinion if it didn't come with adjustability stock then it needs to be that way for zero points at the track. If you add items in it replacement parts that now allows you to adjust then it should he 10 points per component. Now if you use hand tools, washers, bolts and a welder and figure something out then that should be free.
  6. 6 points
    The control arms on the Boxster's did not supersede to the GT3 arms (at least not per the factory). I would love to see the justification from R3R on this.
  7. 6 points
    From the list for rules petitions for 2015: Submission #8 1) Identify the issue, as you perceive it. Reference any existing rule(s) that pertains to the issue. OEM Springs can be unreliable (rusty, worn) and hard to source in good condition for a reasonable amount of time and money spent. New OEM springs are very expensive. 2) Identify, if possible, your understanding of why the current rule or process was initiated and put into place (this is requested to confirm some general understanding of the larger picture; however, if you do not have such an understanding, proceed to Step #3) Current points added for aftermarket springs is 20 pts / corner 3) Propose a solution or revised rule. Petitions received without a solution will NOT be reviewed or discussed by the Board of Directors. Allow aftermarket springs to be used at 0 points add IF they are the same diameter as the OEM springs. This does not allow for smaller threaded body "coilover" springs which can also provide a weight savings. Aftermarket springs can be of the "lowering" and or stiffer nature as long as they retain the OEM shape and style. 4) Provide a list of the positive changes and/or rationale for implementing the proposed solution or revised rule Increased safety to 20-25+ year old cars when an original OEM spring could fail on track. Provides reduced cost in procuring OEM replacement springs and spares plus the time and additional alignment cost of having to swap them after a failure. Justin Lee From the responses to the petitions: Submission #8 - Justin Lee: Allow coil spring replacement without value-add. Determination: Effective 2 January 2016, competition vehicles may replace coil springs without a value-add points addition PROVIDED that the replacement spring measures the same inside and outside diameter (+/- 8mm or 0.25") of the OEM spring.
  8. 6 points
    When I wrote the petition to form the TAC, my thoughts were it should have far more input and "control" (for lack of a better term) than it was ultimately given. My thoughts were that a single person shouldn't be making these decisions. It seems like since the TAC was formed, there have been a number of high-profile decisions that have left a large portion of the membership, if not members of the TAC, scratching their heads (2.5 point hubs, points for aero i.e. airdam vs. splitter, 944 base VPI for swaps, R3R issue, etc.).
  9. 5 points
    I will echo Rich's sentiments about the meeting. But the good news coming out of this will be better the rulings, more consistency and more transparency. We agreed that everyone should play by the same rules. As a result of Barber, Boxsters will be looked over and previous approved allowances possibly stripped. I'm not a tech expert.
  10. 5 points
    I agree 100% with you, and this IMO was the spirit of the rule.
  11. 5 points
    Can someone explain to my this loophole was ever even put into the rules? Why make it so some teams can have free springs and others can not? A spring that is not oe has a different load it can take that affects the suspension. Simple, points. Why if it fits then it is free? That does not make sense. My understanding is that was used to give certain BMW teams free springs. Not sure why that is though now. A non oe spring is a non oe spring. Why is it not that simple? My thought is that if it is not an oe spring you pay points. No more loopholes on this. If not then give everyone free springs. It is not fair for certain teams to get free springs and others do not. Go one way or the other. I put two petitions in on this both ways. I hope the bod can make a fair decision on this. The only issue is we have to wait more than a year. I looked at the part number on that swift spring. Identical to what I have and I pay 40 points and get penalty laps. How is that even remotely fair?
  12. 4 points
    To our esteemed membership, I have some very serious reservations about what has happened over the past week within our club. I want you, the membership, to know that I DO NOT support some things and am working diligently behind the scenes to get to the bottom of what's going on. Firstly, Mr Chisek's Red Flag Video was posted and his words and actions are not shared by myself. Mr Chisek has acted unilaterally in deciding to censor our forums and social media as well as has acted without the Board's support to threaten to remove member's who question the way our series is run. I can assure each and every one of you that so long as I remain on this board of directors (13 more months) that I will fight tooth and nail to protect every member who questions our series when we're at fault. As of this note, Tuesday at 3pm, the Board of Directors has not met nor officially discussed any actions resulting from Barber. I will be working to try to get these posts restored. Mr Chisek is not a benevolent dictator and these kinds of decisions will not be made alone. Mr Chisek states clearly we, as a series, have faulted. That' on US. We need to make it right. I completely disagree with the assessment that because we made a mistake that we would not accept a protest. Yes, our mistake CLEARLY affected the team that crossed the line first on Saturday. It's a shame. And we need to make it right. However by trying to make it right for one team we've done the other 60 teams that were on track wrongly. If our staff do not or can not understand our rules to apply them consistently then we as a series need to look at ourselves and ask if we have the right people in the right places. If a team does not comply to our rules then we need to be prepared to remove them from the podium. In this particular case, assuming Mr Chisek's video gave the full details, the teams that discussed protesting opted to waive their right to protest. I'd like to thank those team captains for having the class to not want to win the race in impound and wanting to do so on the track. I also understand that there is a serious perception issue with the ShiftUp program, Shell/Pennzoil and the CCES staff. CCES is not affiliated with Shell/Pennzoil, the sponsors found on the R3R cars. Having CCES employees on social media taking "Shellfies" to promote this program while wearing CCES clothing and promoting ShiftUp in conjuction with ChampCar is not something we should be doing. Even to me it gives the perception that we are working with Shell. We are not and our employees should only be promoting those sponsors working directly with ChampCar. ShiftUp is a great program and deserves our support. But it should have been supported without mention of any corporate entities. We love having them in the series and look forward to seeing ShiftUp again soon. I personally want to apologize to the membership for the way this past week has played out, publicly and privately. Just know that the Board is working diligently behind the scenes to protect you, the membership, above all.
  13. 4 points
    Just bought a new BELL helmet with the $400 discount we won at Indy! Looking forward to the new season with a flashy new lid.
  14. 4 points
    100% that is the next step. I believe the reluctance to update the rulebook is what is holding back that process. Going back to the "help ticket" for a minute though. It is of utmost importance that these help ticket clarifications do not counter or override the BCCR in ANY way. These should be add ins closing loopholes. Tech cannot give free parts to certain makes and models that other models are paying points for. There IS a process already in the BCCR that the club just was not utilizing (4.4.4). AFTER these tech rulings the BOD were suppose to take up all the "clarifications" and vote on them. Then they would become permanent or not. I understand that tech NEEDS the ability to make a call at the race track in pre race tech. But, the club also needs the ability to decide that tech was incorrect and reverse it. The whole R3R thing should have come up in tech inspection, NOT post race impound. Remember, if you add parts you have to go back through tech. This whole thing should have been figured out before the green flag ever dropped. Not a shitshow in impound. That is what also makes me think they were trying to hide things. Each time we've been in tech they have looked at our car for a min. of 45 min (not exaggerating). I don't see how all those items were missed if they went back through tech with them installed. Now, IF tech is favoring cars and not thoroughly inspecting, that is a different conversation. The help ticket idea is a good one that will hopefully get everyone (tech, TAC, management) on the same page. There has been a disconnect there for awhile which has been baffling.
  15. 4 points
    11/30/19 UPDATE: This is NOT the official statement from the Board of Directors. This are ONLY the ramblings of one man who was on the phone call. The Board of Directors did meet Wednesday night. There will be a more official post coming soon from Tyler or one of the other board members. In short, the situation with R3R at Barber was a result of human error on behalf of our staff. After some brainstorming BoD came to the decision that we're going to implement changes to our corporate systems when it comes to dealing with tech questions. We're basically going to implement a help-ticket system that contacts not only national tech but copies in Mike Chisek as well as all TACommittee members. All tech questions will be replied to using emails and emails only. If you show up at impound and cannot supply a ruling from Tech from a "champcar.org" email address then whatever ruling you are presenting is not going to be accepted. The system, once in place, will act very much like a "help ticket" system that many of you are used to in the IT world. As for the discussion revolving around the RFVideo I let my feelings on the matter be known and I let them be known probably a bit more loudly than needed. However my feelings are very strong on the subject as do many of you and I expressed my concerns to the best of my ability. The past week has brought other significant issues to light with the Board of Directors and our by-laws that I think the BoD is going to have to sit down and REALLY look at over the next couple of months. I see some issues in our by-laws that don't necessarily limit the Board from making some decisions but certainly hamstring us should we have to make those decisions one day. Specifically, how our President and CEO of the company are tied together as one position and how that position is voted on by the membership, not hired/terminated by the Board.
  16. 3 points
    The third point is pretty silly. If it's like-for-like there should be no need to inspect. Do you want to know when I change my brake pads?
  17. 3 points
    I think what he is saying is that it is next to impossible to spend enough points to make a low vpi worth the effort. Everything is free. 200 points (for example) is tough to spend in this series at this point in my opinion.
  18. 3 points
    I am also interested in what becomes of this because even if you can't buy OEM, factory, stock, non-adjustable front and rear end links for a 99 Boxster from Porsche itself there are still many, many places to get OEM equivalent replacements. I have no clue what R3R told Tech or anyone else (and these things should be transparent) but if their intent was to mislead so that they could gain an advantage then it's still breaking the rules.
  19. 3 points
    Springs, non-OE coil springs (including ‘coil-over’ kit): 10 pts per corner Exemption: Competition vehicles may replace OE coil springs for 0 pts provided that the replacement maintains the exact same ID/OD measurements as the OE spring (+/- 0.25”) throughout the entire body of the spring.
  20. 3 points
    Did anybody miss this? Because if they did, now is the chance to read it. And then read it again. @riche30, thank you for keeping us updated. Your original post was neither too loud nor too soon. Many of us feel strongly about this stuff, so you're not alone. I felt phisically ill after watching the video. I was honestly ready to be done with the series after seeing it. Your post was the lighthouse in the fog that kept me from rage quiting the forum and saying goodbye. There are clearly some "back end" things that need work, but I think those have been successfully highlighted by this situation. The real work begins now to achieve some real solutions and not just knee jerk reactions. While you're right that CC must take ownership of the mistakes that brought us here, I don't think that vindicates R3R in this situation. They clearly knew they were pushing the limits. However and with whomever they wordsmithed their way into believing what they were doing didn't go against both the spirit and the intent of the rules doesn't matter. If they believe the situation evolved differently, I'd love to hear from them. But I have a feeling the truth doesn't fit their narrative. Either way, the actions of some of the members of their team as the situation unfolded speaks volumes about the attitude of the team as a whole. Sounds to me like the definition of unsportsmanlike conduct.
  21. 3 points
  22. 2 points
    You mean like when the no repurposing rule made a brief appearance? If it functioned as a fixed point item then it was charged the fixed item points - until the SC300 needed a rear spoiler via a flipped trunk for free because it wasn’t winning enough yet. Like caster/camber plates? They are points.
  23. 2 points
    so now some of you want any creative engineering of original suspension to be points....no way a lower classed car can compete for the overall with that philosophy , unless few 250 horsepower cars show up....... all of that hand tool messaging of an inferior suspension car to make it competitive , is what drives many to champ car...that is fundamental to the series in my view....anything is points.. will make the series make and model specific...and way to spec...
  24. 2 points
    Yeah OEM equivalent nonadjustable control arms are plenty available. When we had a boxster, we specifically didn't get the GT3 arms, because as a team, we thought they would be super cheaty even though they are a direct fit item. But it $eems as though the deci$ion was made to benefit one team and any differing opinion can get you booted from the series so I'll leave it alone. Just waiting for all adjustable suspension to be 0 points since the boxsters are getting it (from a different model's race/track trim no less). Rich, thanks for the voice of reason. I hope you have some success.
  25. 2 points
    Correct you are. Make spring seat from BMW scrap metal I did.
  26. 2 points
  27. 2 points
    Top and bottom will not address the rear spring loophole for the e30 but I don’t know of a e30 team using “straight” rear springs.
  28. 2 points
    Can we immediately get the spring pandora’s box opened so everyone can see it?
  29. 2 points
    So why put them on in the first place? And why bring parts along to change to stock....just in case you caught out of bounds? Seems sketchy at best.
  30. 2 points
    Please list the parts that were changed from Saturday to Sunday.
  31. 2 points
    And closing loopholes based on a flawed interpretation of rules that were brought to light.
  32. 2 points
    Thanks Mike, but not the point of all of this, its about rules and enforcement and how it was all handled by Champcar. Nothing to do with the drivers or results.
  33. 2 points
    All I can say is me too. After watching that video I was soo pissed I couldn't see straight. I actually had my phone in hand to call Mike and say some very angry words. I'm glad I changed my mind and ordered parts instead.
  34. 2 points
    Thanks Rich for the update and it shows the BOD are working to correct the issues found. I am hopeful the R3R cars will receive proper points after this present issue as it would help to put some faith back into our system of checks and balances. I think it will also show the members they can see that the BOD really do care and have the members backs in such matters. I have often wondered why TAC has not been involved from the start since they should have added knowledge to such evaluation of points rulings. To me there word should be highly considered in any points or rule evaluation. I know it is hard to get a quick answer doing it in this matter but it will help when National Tech has to make an on the spot call and I would hope with those they are then brought back full circle through the system. That team would be given a one race pass until a final answer is determined. Great to see the quick changes and as for the red flag, I watched about 2/3's of it and turned it off, I was so upset I walked outside to sit in the cold for about ten minutes to cool off. Very difficult for me to explain but I was really upset. If it were me I would use the first part and trash the rest.
  35. 1 point
    My take is as follows: if it came stock non adjustable it stays non adjustable. If you choose to make it adjustable by kit, nuts and bolts or other methods it is points.
  36. 1 point
    Moving into the "New" shop space and getting upgrades ready for Road Atlanta. Lots of work to do yet.
  37. 1 point
    Or, exact same shape and same ID/OD measurements as the OE spring (+/-0.25") As for the other R3R parts I'm sure they are getting looked at as well, we all need to wait and see how the BOD and all work this out in detail.
  38. 1 point
    What about supposedly superseded control arms to allow full adjustability? Because we pay 20 points for aftermarket suspension pieces because our rear toe arms are adjustable. The factory uses eccentrics, but they max out if you lower the car even a little. But if I buy a Moog replacement off RockAuto it looks like this. I use them to make alignments easy. I could slot the holes more for the same effect, but I don't hate my alignment guys that much. Now, under the "we didn't choose your car" rule, we've always paid points, which is the way it should be. Whether or not Porsche wants to pay some dirty supersede games makes no difference.
  39. 1 point
    Definitely cheap and plentiful. Gotta figure how to attach it to a getrag trans
  40. 1 point
    If aero can only deflect in thousandths of an inch those of us running roll plastic air dams are gonna have a bad time.
  41. 1 point
    My dealer said Ford GT. I got black with orange stripes. Alan Jay Ford FTW.
  42. 1 point
    Went to the Ford dealer today, tried to buy a new 1995 Mustang Cobra so we could have a backup car. They told me "Sorry sir, we don't sell that anymore its now a 2019 GT350R" So i bought that one... see everyone at Sebring!
  43. 1 point
    I'll repost this handy graphic I made too. Maybe someone can print a copy for tech.
  44. 1 point
    So instead of actually enforcing the rules we are going to give everyone free springs instead of making 1 team take points for them? ZERO sense.
  45. 1 point
    I support Rich in this. I won't be voting to terminate anyone's membership because they have a bad word to say about the series. Please keep libelous statements off the interwebz, but criticize away. That's how we get better. And there's a lot more to the Saturday night stuff.
  46. 1 point
    After reading around the interwebs and looking at P car suspension parts and options...
  47. 1 point
    I guess last year when Tech wanted to give us 48 points for a fiberglass cowl hood that replaced our OE fiberglass composite hood we should have informed them that we had a pro driver for the car and were working on bringing sponsors to the table.
  48. 1 point
    Trying to push the blame on to the competitors/CUSTOMERS is the wrong move here. We have 2 BCCR's and probably 5-10 protests forms in our trailer. If anyone ever needs either please find us in our pit stall.
  49. 1 point
    For rules to be upheld, there has to be a penalty and enforcement. For the ones breaking the rule/law, there is the risk of getting caught and then the risk of being penalized. Some people will weigh the odds and take the chance. One of the big questions is, when you get caught, do you get a slap on the wrist or do you get shot? That's risk management.
  50. 1 point
    I guess what differentiates tuttle in my mind is that he makes no effort to play the political game. He's more of a political train wreck, and I have no reason to believe anyone would give him special treatment.
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