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Showing content with the highest reputation on 10/19/2020 in all areas

  1. Yes, but WHY? In September they were free....how? How did tech desk 5 points become free? I just don’t see a reason here other than “some big spender put an aftermarket alternator on his car and didn’t claim it for the 5 points and we didn’t want to bump him to 505 points”. Radiator change: petition was made, there are arguments about the benefits of changing the way radiators are valued / not valued. Shock change: same deal Alternator change: ??? Nobody on the forum was asking for free alternators. Nobody has publicly come forward to say “my car can’t
    6 points
  2. It would work if we all followed the guidelines.
    5 points
  3. Commenting on the radiator wording issue. I'm taking it as a success that this is the biggest issue we have found so far. I believe the appropriate wording for 4.3.2 would be "Radiator greater than 1x cost: 30 pts", and my suggestion would be for you to interpret it that way if you are shopping for radiators, as that is what I understood the intent to be based on direction from the BOD. If you choose to interpret it as the dealership OE part's cost, I doubt you will find success with that argument. Now, outside of the tech writer, this is what I have always und
    5 points
  4. I could not agree more and I think a lot of people agree, but some do not. I think a lot of people that do not need reliability items would rather have someone fail and them win then race to the end. I want to see people, myself included, finish a race and battle to the end. A customer who finishes a race will race again. A customer who blows up and does not have funds to race again may not race again, will cancel events and might quit al together. I blew up my engine at PIRC. I do not have the time to get another or the money right now to spend on the car as I used all my race f
    5 points
  5. You did great work with the tech desk. Tech / management created the monster by saying “yes” so many times.
    4 points
  6. I voted for alternators to be 5 points, I was not in the majority. I don't know how tech desk points became free. They were points in February then switched to free in September. I also have a problem with it and don't understand how this did not go through. I sent a letter to TAC, tech and the BOD about some of these issues. The Tech Desk was suppose to be somewhere that Tech could look at interpretations during the year. They should be able to reference back decisions that were made. This is why we also have the knowledge base. I do not know how something can be points then free in t
    4 points
  7. OK, I'll just come right out and say it - that was really dumb. You had this mostly unassuming thing sitting out there at 5 points that a team with 5 points to spare could look at and say "should I go with that fancy alternator or should I make myself some dive planes [or other helpful item that can be made with ~5 points of material]? Hmmm, decisions decisions..." Now everybody has to go out and buy a stupid expensive fancy alternator to keep up with the big spenders. Perfect example of what everyone is complaining about. (I'm not even going to address the
    4 points
  8. OEM is Original Equipment Manufacture - assembly line part. OES is Original Equipment Service - OE replacement part (think AC Delco or Motorcraft AFTER a car is 10 years old). Aftermarket is a part made by an auto parts company that MAY or MAY NOT be an OEM or OES supplier. Trust me, this is my everyday world....
    4 points
  9. First thing you need to do is reuse some of that money you have and become a member, then get back to visiting us at some ChampCar races. That would be a very good start.
    4 points
  10. Speaking as a competitor, what I have observed is this: If your original ECU controlled ignition, you can switch to a new ECU for free and it will control ignition. The remainder of the system stays stock though, whatever that consists of (coil pack(s), coil, igniter, etc) Switching from a coil to coil on plug would invoke the 20 points for aftermarket ignition system. If you go from a distributor to a msd box, you are upgrading the ignition system so thats 20 points. You can switch from carb to EFI if you wish, and the ECU part of that conversion would be fre
    4 points
  11. I have avoided doing this out of principle. I think it’s a rule that needs to go away and I don’t want to utilize it. Had some of this stuff on the car through 2017 but it’s been removed. I’m fine with repurpose unless it’s a fixed value item, for that I am of the opinion that it should be the set number of points no matter where it came from.
    3 points
  12. I think no wings & splitters is more Chumpy
    3 points
  13. why do people think adjustable damping is so exotic? you get adjustable damping on street level coil-overs at this point with a 4 corner set costing a thousand bucks. i went through this when i built the e30 and the billies were unobtanium due to supply chain poop show. twist adjust dampening has been on moto's, mountain bikes, etc forever, it's just not that big a deal nor that expensive. this could be really simple rule: 1) no remote reservoirs, 2) 2x cost limiter on dealer purchased OEM, 3) single adjust only, i.e. twist adjust on dampening or schrader for gas adjust
    3 points
  14. Re: 30pt radiators. Im having a hard time understanding what this rule is trying to accomplish. A few free items were just added that have a more significant impact on overall pace, and the direction is to clamp down on engine cooling? Really?
    3 points
  15. Per Mike Morrison - "a light mix of anti-freeze will be allowed." I will add to the supps tomorrow
    3 points
  16. On the radiator rule. What if O'Riley, Autozone, Pepboys and NAPA do not have a radiator for the car as the car is so old there are no replacement ones. Then what? Can we use OEM at that point? What if the OEM does not sell them anymore and part not available? What do we do then when the only replacement option is aftermarket and aluminum?
    3 points
  17. Really appreciate all the effort you are putting into this! Just having to coordinate with @Bill Strong is enough of a hassle...
    3 points
  18. The only way I see to give all this reliability stuff away is a comprehensive revamp of fixed point adders and Vpi for most cars. Otherwise it’s just allowing more speed parts and modifications. Cars that benefit most from the reliability mods would have to see the biggest jump in Vpi, one size does not fit all. Everyone wants to finish. Most everyone wants everyone to finish.
    3 points
  19. I think everybody wants everybody to finish. It's up to the team captain to spend their points on reliability versus speed parts to make that happen. If a captain chooses speed parts over reliability, that ain't champcar fault. If all reliability items become free so everybody finishes, speed parts need to be increased in value about 2 fold. In other words, you are simply asking for champcar to take the decision of speed versus reliability away from the captain. Edit to give a real world example... troy, your vpi is what 250? An oil
    3 points
  20. This is all I can find for my very niche car (which I might actually finish building this year): These are the only options I have found ranging from not available to $1030 and not available. Looks like C&R for me! In all honesty I feel like it would be good to just make the rule as follows: <=$300 radiator - 0 points >$300 radiator - 30 points ...or just go back to the old rule
    2 points
  21. It’s fun to talk about these parts that you *could* make in a crucible with leftover sheet metal. But nobody actually is and I think it detracts form productive conversation. I’ll eat a piece of my shorts the day someone shows up with a legit upgrade part made from melting and casting another piece of their car which couldn’t be accomplished in a different, much easier, way.
    2 points
  22. Nice, my Mishimoto rad with the lifetime warranty went from 10 pts to 30 pts. Does anyone have a good reason for this change? Was there a specific car or team that was getting a large enough advantage to justify penalizing others that weren't?
    2 points
  23. No BMW team is affected by this rule. We all run OE spec Nissens or EBay radiators. BMWs don’t have cooling issues relating to the radiators. And I don’t see anyone changing to a different radiator because of this change. Because again, we don’t have cooling issues. Maybe I’m just speaking for myself here. I have run the same Nissens OE spec radiator for 3 years now.
    2 points
  24. The new radiator rule would have been fine if the 10 point option was left in place. Now there is no middle ground... By trying to reduce spending, legacy teams will have to spend money to conform to the rule.
    2 points
  25. Well I just got off the phone with Siebkens. It looks like the Stop Inn Tavern is open on Friday, Sat and Sunday and no restrictions to capactiy. Who is all coming to enjoy some drinks at Siebkens with us? This is a very important part of this weekend
    2 points
  26. The discussion with the BOD was that this would not effect a lot of teams as there are pretty cheap aluminum radiators online that are less than the cost of an OE radiator so it would fall into free points to keep racing less costly for teams. The intent was to keep the "racing" type radiators on the FPV list at 30 points. I would bring documentation on what you find radiators for to tech and explain your case. That is the best answer I can give now without discussing with the rest of the BOD. I can tell you I did not vote for this change as I thought what we had in place for 2020 was grea
    2 points
  27. Don't get your hopes up! Active aero was not approved by the BOD. We found this as a rabbit hole we did not want to go down. I caught it on Friday and emailed the team and it should not be in there. Not sure how it ended up in the BCCR. Other items if you want to discuss I am open via email, PM, or text messaging (currently no phone so it'll be a couple of days). There are some emails I need to get to that I received over the weekend, but I am getting my information as requested. I am happy to tell you which ways I voted for this year in the petition process.
    2 points
  28. Just going to add a couple of things to my Amazon shopping cart. https://www.amazon.com/Backyard-Foundry-Machinists-Terry-Aspin/dp/1565238656/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=Metal+Melting&qid=1603118652&sr=8-10 https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Propane-Furnace-Crucible-Smelting/dp/B073DRQY98/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=Metal+Melting&qid=1603118652&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRkZOT0Y4SDM0SE9TJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzM2NTI1MlhTWkVHVDkwUzlVTiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDc5NzUxMzc1RlJUS1E5Q1RMMyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb
    2 points
  29. The radiator rule is a bit weird to me. Why is it 30 points? It’s more than a diff swap ? 6 times what fancy hubs for a Miata are that cost like a gillion bucks each. Why are we still worried about running dirt cheap radiators? The perceptions of low cost left the house long ago. It just seems out of synch, maybe out dated?
    2 points
  30. Doesn't oem literally mean original equipment manufacturer? From wikipedia... When referring to auto parts, OEM refers to the manufacturer of the original equipment, that is, the parts assembled and installed during the construction of a new vehicle.
    2 points
  31. I take points for my accusump and I am fine with it, but this is not about my car. There are cars that do not have points to get an accusump and blow up, but that team might not come back. What I do not get is how that can get ignored so often. Then if they blow up and do not come back people say, the caption choose their action so to bad for them. Also, please do not assume I am saying this or that for my car, as this has nothing to do with my car and I am trying to look at the series as a hole and for the future of teams and the series. Speed or reliability away from the caption.
    2 points
  32. I think one has to remember everyone’s garage/race shop is not the same. There are teams that could do this very right. We don’t need active aero. IMO
    2 points
  33. If it works right it's an advantage but it takes a lot of time & money to get it right. F1 and IndyCar has spent big money to make it work. I've seen a Lemons car the the rear wing would stand straight up under braking to help slow the car down. It also unloaded the front end making it push. I say all aerodynamic devices should be stationary. It's also a moving target because you will be charged points for it but you won't know what the amount is till you get to tech.
    2 points
  34. I was a bit disappointed that active aero was in the 2021 rules. I don't think that's a path we need to go down.
    2 points
  35. I have a HUGE issue with this, tech desk is making up rules that don't exist or contradicted other tech desk articles which is essentially making up rules without the petition process or board approval.
    2 points
  36. Just wanted to add a note to address a few things I have seen come up already. As the Tech Writer, the fact that the tech desk is not updated at this time is 100% on me, and I apologize for that. I will be working on it moving forward to ensure the articles that were migrated to the BCCR are "retired" - no need for this info to be in two places at once. There is some timeframe questions to address however - For example, this article is clearly in the 2021 bccr, however it is not in the 2020 version. I do not think I should retire it until 01Jan2021, as otherwise there is a "gap
    2 points
  37. What counts as "reliability" upgrades? Does it stop just at radiators and fluid coolers? I'm sure there are plenty of cars that have weak transmissions or rear ends made of glass or axles or hubs or some other component that is compromised in a race track environment that isn't fixed simply by adding a fluid cooler. Is all that stuff gonna be free too? Giving away more stuff for free ain't gonna stop those with money from outspending those without. They'll just find something else to spend it on. If your car has an inherent weakness, address it with parts, petition for a VPI adjustment,
    2 points
  38. Why cant we just get rid of points for anything that makes the car more reliable but doesn’t make it any faster. Lets say my cars vpi is 500pts. I want to put a better radiator on it to help cool the engine better. I take a 30 pt hit for that and that now costs me 3 laps. That radiator doesn’t make my car any faster to make up those 3 laps. We spend thousands of dollars to go to these races and that doesn’t include the cost of building the car. I want to run the entire weekend and not have to worry about overheating the car, starving the engine of oil, or overhe
    2 points
  39. Suck up...You must need to tech your car still.
    2 points
  40. Are aluminum coolant surge tanks still points? Asking for a friend.
    1 point
  41. One with an sfi rating is always a good choice (edit:) if you like your ankles... Yes, I've seen a lightened flywheel explode and take out the floor /break a guys leg in lemons.
    1 point
  42. I thought it was @LuckyKidthat submitted 2 billion tickets, not you @Bill Strong
    1 point
  43. We stuck a chiminea in the trailer for this weekend. That's about as good as Floridians can do. EDIT: does anybody know where we can buy firewood in Wisconsin? Here in Florida we buy it at the grocery store.
    1 point
  44. Let's talk alternators shall we? I don't think I've seen this yet. If I find a lightweight "racing" alternator (or even an OE-style alternator) that comes with what would otherwise be an underdrive pulley is the whole thing free or do I still pay points for the pulley?
    1 point
  45. It is and that is why I brought it up before the rules were released.
    1 point
  46. Supps updated https://champcar.org/register/supplementalrules/419.pdf ESN 4 - Teams may add up to 10% antifreeze to their radiators for this event.
    1 point
  47. Document it. We did this a few times with my car for stuff. Problem was that the quality was not there. I suck at that stuff. It's not as easy as the $20 BackYard Foundry book said it was.
    1 point
  48. What happened to 4.4.2? It's still in the 2021 rule book. Yet there are more "Free Parts" 4.4.2. There is NO SUCH THING as a free part, every part of a vehicle has a value. Parts not covered elsewhere in the rules will be assigned a point value by ChampCar Tech.
    1 point
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