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  1. Will the fuel used to check displacement at impound be delivered by a European swallow or an African swallow?
    19 points
  2. As a team of all professional engineers, this thread makes me sad for humanities future.
    19 points
  3. If the idea of this post was to draw out the teams that are potentially strrreeetching the intent of the fuel capacity rule, I think it might have worked.
    17 points
  4. It's not just about safety and enforceability. It simplifies the rule, and puts everyone on the same field. Instead of cells get +2 gallons + filler neck, and stock tank cars getting whatever additional they can from vent mods, + filler neck, everybody just gets +2. Which means to do a pump out/fill there's no math or neck removal, and everybody is the same. IMO it's the way the rule was intended all along. Quit playing the victim already, and make the car legal, or take your ball and go home.
    16 points
  5. Aluminum radiator used to have points associated with it. Now it free. Those points are going into something else to make the car faster. Period. The argument is it saves teams money. Well sure it might save some teams money because they don't have to seek out old rare parts, but the speed creep going to cost me a lot of money. We race at Nelson Ledges a lot. In 2018 our lap times were on par with the average FTD of the top 10 cars - and we finished on the podium. In 2021 with the same car we are like 3.5 seconds per lap behind the average of the top 10. We went from the podium in 2018 to almost slowest on single lap time in 2021. These are facts. Our VPI is down from 474 (back in 2012) to 388 and we've added parts to the car. Hmmm. So yes we have points for a swap, but now I've got the expense of acquiring, adapting, tuning a new engine/trans combo plus the uncertainty that it can make two hours on a tank. Also I guess I'll have to dispose all the old engine/trans at virtually no value since Saturn parts are not in much demand. If I want to be competitive it will cost me money. The worst part is there is no bottom I can see. This is going to keep going and I don't want to have to find another second of performance every year to keep up. Every year it gets harder for true newbie teams to come into ChampCar and not be rolling chicanes. The board is going to hear about this as soon as I get done with my research on how much cheaper the add on parts have become, and investigating VPI drops.
    15 points
  6. I can't believe I just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading the last 2-3 pages of this thread, but I'm going to take a crack at this anyway @Bandit, @Final Turn Motorsports - all respect to you guys as racers but there's a major disconnect here. Nobody is saying that fuel volume does not change with temperature. We all agree with that. What we're saying is that a 1 gallon container will hold the same VOLUME of fuel whether the fuel is at 0 degrees or 100 degrees. Gallon is a measure of volume. Let's say you have a 1 gallon container at 0 degrees and you fill it with fuel at 0 degrees. The VOLUME of fuel that you put into the container will be 1 gallon. Now dump the container out and move it to a location that is 100 degrees, and fill it with fuel that is also at 100 degrees. The VOLUME of fuel you put into the container will still be 1 gallon. NOW - and here is where I think the disconnect lies. If you take that container ALREADY FILLED with fuel at 0 degrees and heat it up to 100 degrees, the fuel will expand and overflow the container, but the VOLUME of the container is still 1 gallon. The pump out test says the tank will be drained and filled with "known amounts" of fuel. The ONLY WAY anyone with a properly sized system could get into trouble at impound due to the fact that fuel volume changes with temperature is if tech places "known amounts" of fuel into the test containers and then, between the moment they fix the "known amount" of fuel and the moment it goes into your car, the fuel is cooled down significantly enough to reduce it's volume. Side note - I think some of the disconnect you're having "based on experience" may be because IMSA and other more sophisticated sanctioning bodies I believe control fuel capacity by WEIGHT (which incidentally is a far more accurate way of controlling the amount of energy available to power a car but that's a whole other can of worms), and if a competitor is trying to comply with a WEIGHT requirement by adjusting the VOLUME of fuel the car holds, that does get very complicated and becomes dynamic depending on ambient temperature. In such a case, a tank that is sized to hold 50 lbs of fuel in the hot Florida sun will hold more than 50 lbs of fuel in the cold Wisconsin winter because 50 lbs of cold fuel takes up less volume than 50 lbs of hot fuel.
    15 points
  7. Reading comprehension fail. Let me try again another way to help you. In an amateur series, which professes to let people come race without "obscene" expense, the rules should prevent teams from gaining advantage from spending. Currently our rule book doesn't do a good job of that. Therefore we currently rely on people respecting the "spirit of the series". Each team's interpretation of that is different. If you used to run an IMSA team, spending $50k in a weekend is racing without obscene expense. Unfortunately, for about 90% of champcar's customers, the weekend cost is way less, so $50k is an "obscene" expense. Just because you disagree with me, doesn't mean my statement wasn't well thought out. I was elected as a board member with the platform that I would speak up for the lower budget teams. I want to prevent champcar from becoming WRL or AER with how much those series cost to be competitive. Yes, champcar currently offers the opportunity to go racing with your friends and family without obscene expense. However, I want to ensure we continue to offer the opportunity for teams to actually compete without spending their way onto the podium. Should it be easy? No. But with effort and experience, every team should have the opportunity, and the second spending becomes a requirement to compete for the win, we have failed as a series. If you feel thats wrong, so be it, but I won't back down from speaking my mind. I owe it to the members who voted for me with the understanding that I would speak up when necessary. So yes, there are a few teams who I feel don't respect the spirit of the series, and who would be a better fit for WRL or AER. We don't want to lose customers, and it's not personal, but by those teams participating it provides an image that is not in line with the perception we should be outlining as a series. There is an opportunity cost there, and if perspective customers (or current members) see those cars racing and succeeding, they may choose to race with an alternative series (or not race at all) as a result. There are tons of teams who spend more than me. Ask the guys who race with me, my rates are reasonable and my cars are "built, not bought". We race on the same set of tires all year - budget is definitely a concern. So no, every team who spends more than me is not who I am talking about. So, in summary, you are a troll hiding behind your keyboard. Good Day.
    14 points
  8. IMO excessively large filler necks were a loophole. If you go against the spirit of the rules don't be surprised when they change against you. This is why we didn't do a big filler neck.
    14 points
  9. Well, after close to 4 years trying to "Stay Focus'd", our SVT finally made it out to a race again. Major updates were made over that time including rebuilding the broken motor, w/porting and compression improvements; new Getrag 6 speed with Quaife LSD; 15x9 wheels, 245/40/15 tires vs 17x9's previously (50 lbs total unsprung reciprocating weight loss); aluminum F/W w/single disk clutch vs OEM dual mass (more reciprocating weight loss), p/s elimination; lighter AGM battery, lightened the BIW for a total of +200 lbs overall weight loss, plus a bunch of other reliability and safety updates that hopefully all added up to something... We dyno tuned the car last October and ran 2 test days at Gingerman back then, plus 1 day at Waterford Hills a few weeks back. Other than some suspension tweaks, the car ran flawless throughout. We knew we picked up speed, but weren't sure exactly how much since it was only testing. PWR before and after: 2510'ish lbs/170chp (OE advertised) = 14.76:1 2325'ish lbs/190chp (170whp dyno = ~190chp?) = 12.24:1 ?? (approx) I mentioned the car ran flawless - wish I could say the same thing happened Saturday, lolz. 1-2 laps into the race, the driver reports low voltage, then a dead engine. We check things out, determine the new alternator is not charging for some reason, and begin to remove it and send someone for parts. After removing the alternator, we found the wire terminal/cable from alt. to starter was bad. Replaced that terminal, lost over an hour and decided to use the rest of the day to test and get seat time. First test item was to see if we could go 2 hours or 65 laps on a tank of fuel with the stronger hp motor. We have a 15 gallon fuel cell + surge tank. (I use 65 laps as a 2 hour benchmark at Gman, as past winners average 250-260 laps over 8 hours there.) We also did a full 2 hour stint Sunday morning, but only made 61 laps in that time frame, so more speed is needed to keep with the leaders. Speaking of speed, forgot to mention - the car went 1:52.4 a few years back, we went 1:52 in testing last Fall, so i was hoping/feeling the car was capable of 1:50 flats or slightly better. Was pleasantly surprised with our first driver Saturday morning setting FTD at 1:48.872. we had a lot of 49's over the weekend to back that up. Another pleasant surprise was my son getting up to speed. Neither he, nor I, have a ton of W2W experience, he was getting good and catching up to me back in '17, but hasn't raced since then. The practice days must have paid off as the kid beat the old man both days by a tick or 2. Our driver spread has improved, but there's always work to do there. Saturday FTD 1:48.8, slowest driver = 1:51.4 / Sunday FTD 1:49.1, slowest driver = 1:50.4 We ran a fairly clean race 7 hour race on Sunday. I ran the 2nd stint, and was 1 of the first cars to come up on the 944 that oiled down the track and was parked just off the pavement in turn 10, with their drivers' door facing the track. The entry to 10 is blind, 90mph, stay left and brake as you crest a small hill. First thing I saw once I hit the brakes and realized the car was sliding in oil was the 944 driver looking at me, as my trajectory was his door. I was lucky enough to release the brakes, get enough grip to turn right, then back to the left as the car started to slide sideways off track. Again, it gripped enough and I was able to leave the pavement somewhat perpendicular to track. Only thing left was could I get stopped before ending up in the swamp?! That worked out ok and we got back on track, only to circle around for a half hour under yellow, and then stop for the quiet hour break. These 3+4 hour races at gingerman have become interesting, presenting different strategy opportunities. Our previous strategy was to stay out until 1 hour after the 1 hour quiet break and pit then, thus opening up pit windows for the final 2 stints. The long yellow in the morning SHOULD have changed our strategy, but my radio became unplugged and later the rest of the team told me they decided to just stick with the plan. We talked strategy at the break, and were possibly going to attempt another 2 hours after lunch (based on fuel burn and the long yellow), and had other options too. I eliminated 1 option in the afternoon with a mistake, PUY about an hour in. At that point, we just changed drivers, fueled, hoped for and played the final short caution to make our final stop, and finished in 8th place. Overall happy with the car and the teams' performance. We've made some big strides, and still have more planned improvements to come. I've been working hard and sometimes been having doubts about it all... I'll tell you what, hanging out with you fellow racers, the ChampCar staff, and actually getting out there and doing some RACING instead of driving around uncompetitively, made it all worthwhile. Can't wait to see you all again at Mid Ohio if all goes well. Thanks to all who've offered advice, help, and words of encouragement.
    14 points
  10. I don’t know ultimately if I will have perm damage but it doesn’t matter. I may never climb another 14er but I will have my life. I will adapt. And who knows maybe I do make a full recovery. I’m exactly two weeks in the icu with two more likely, but I will survive. The poor nurses here have only had three survivals this month including me. My nurse told me this morning that she just can’t keep putting people in body bags. Made me cry for them. But I will be ok. For that I am so grateful. Everything is different. I know what’s important now. I’m trying to look at this as ultimately a great thing to happen. It will impact every decision I make going forward. I was going to work to 67 or 70. Now, less than four more years. Before I’m 62 I will be done working. And I can’t wait to have an Irish car bomb with you guys at the lodge next May.
    13 points
  11. We already have a light flywheel, so I guess this frees up points. But lets be honest; lighter flywheels are often cheaper than steel ones (Fidanza replacement friction surfaces are like $60) and a good portion of the field cheats on them anyway. Allowing them helps the non-cheaters. I guess we could now run a custom thinner radiator and save idk 2 lbs? Not sure how it could make us faster. This would let us run a fully welded aluminum radiator for more reliability. That's it. Hood cutting was already free, I guess this just makes aftermarket vents become free? Some of these (like racelouvers.com) reduce lift more than most home-cut hoods would, at the cost of additional drag. I see this as a nothingburger. ChampCar is weird. Teams can show up with stacks of A052s and no one bats an eye, but minutiae like camber adjustment and radiator construction are hotly debated.
    13 points
  12. I'm trying to be as polite as possible, but I don't think your understanding how this works. I'll try to explain it as best I can. 1. In Florida on Sept 1st, you do your test and your at the limit of 15Gal. Dead on. Temp is 100Degrees. Fuel is at 100D Fuel weight is 102lbs. 2. Road Atlanta in Feb. Temp is 40Degrees. Fuel is at 40 degrees. you still can only put 15Gal in your system. But the weight will be higher. Maybe 108lbs. So yes, technically you have more "fuel" in the cell if your using energy as your metric of measurement. But the volume is the exact same 15Gal. If you took the 15Gal in cans from Florida and let them cool in Atlanta and then put them in the car, you may actually be only putting in 14Gal, but the same "energy" Does that make more sense?
    13 points
  13. The list above is a classic example of SOME of the things that people used to run on their cars and NEVER claimed. In recent years, CC has identified this as being a problem - all teams should be able to read the rulebook and come away with similar understanding of what's allowed and what's not. In the spirit of keeping things fair, instead of some teams hiding items and not claiming them, the TAC, BoD, Tech and others worked to assign point values to these type of items that went previously unclaimed. How would the membership feel if the groups I mentioned above were "in the know" and ran certain parts for free (unclaimed), while some, or the rest of the membership felt they would be assigned points if they did the same? Why should swap cars get free headers when non swaps can't? Which car came with an aluminum flywheel? How would folks feel if I put $700 hubs on my car as a TAC member but didn't tell anybody? What if @Andrew D Johnson runs an aluminum flywheel on his Honda and doesn't tell anybody? Does that make it ok? He and I both do, and we both lobbied heavily to have them cost us points to run them! Just as we worked to assign points to hubs - which were 10 at one point until a former Tech Official let his buddy making hubs for small cars influence his decision and talk our CEO into lowering them to 2.5. I'd like to think we can do better than that as an organization moving forward. The E30 diff ratio discovery at NCM championship one year was the beginning of uncovering these items that some teams knew they could run and some did not. How is it fair for some to know unwritten rules and take advantage of them when others didn't know? I'm describing the earlier days when a lot of teams did that and got away with it. Was it fair? I don't think so. Long story short - if anyone was using some of the parts on that list, they should have been claiming them all along. Again, each time a part is determined to be "free" or no points, it allows those points to be used elsewhere. I think most everyone would then use the freed up points on something else needed, whether it be another reliability item, or a go fast item such as a wing.
    11 points
  14. You are absolutely right. In an ideal world the rule book would provide good equalization to disallow the advantages a team could purchase with a check book. Unfortunately our current BCCR is not good in that regard. The problem lies with a few select teams who don't have the respect for the sport and the other competitors to participate in a "spirit of the series" manner. Where you draw the line is admittedly blurry and open for interpretation. How much $ is OK to spend for a CC weekend is going to be up for each team to decide, and from those few team's lofty perspectives, spending $50k/weekend is cheap versus what they used to do. Until the rule book is adjusted or they are somehow told to straighten up, the pattern will continue and I would expect additional players to join the "lets buy a win" club. OTOH, the whole point of ChampCar is to have fun and those teams coming to participate doesn't really affect my ability to hang out at a race track, see my friends, drink some beverages, eat some food, and sometimes even race, with my friends and family. SO I choose to not let it affect me anymore at the track, and just proceed with what I do anyways. There's always a guy with deeper pockets and there's always a guy with a faster car, so just have fun.
    11 points
  15. This may require a temperature correction factor. 5 minutes at a cold track like autumn Road America won't be the same as 5 minutes in Florida heat.
    11 points
  16. 13 pages in two days. 12-1/2 of those pages devoted to the argument of how cooling affects putting fuel into a fixed volume container. How about everyone just push the keyboard a little further away.
    11 points
  17. If you really want to know, my problem has nothing to do with fuel capacity of our car or any other to be honest. Champcar has a rule that states filler necks should be routed in the most direct path possible. This rule is not enforced AT ALL allowing teams to put obnoxious filler necks in to gain fuel capacity. Champcar tells us we need to change our system, so when doing work on our fuel system 3 years ago we had a lengthy discussion and spend money to build it EXACTLY how they wanted it. Enough so that they were pulling other teams over to show them how they wanted it done. We show up to a race, make impound and look at a handful of cars with massive filler necks, watch the following day as they packed them full of fuel. We see what they are doing understand why but mention something to champcar about the previous conversation we had and get an answer that doest correlate to what we had been told. We get chewed on at the national championship race for packing our cell tight and having fuel in the filler neck to start the race. We say something in tech about filler necks and direct routing get an answer that is CYA we wanna keep everyone happy. Champcar makes an absurd rule to force people into doing exactly what they explicitly told us they didn't want them to do because they wouldn't enforce already existing rules that are written into the existing book even after teams bring the problem to their attention. Now every car will need to carry fuel in the filler neck instead of a few. This is a massive step backwards in safety series wide. If your team along with a few others had followed the rules and the intent of what they wanted we wouldn't be having this conversation. Not everyone thinks just about themselves you know. You should try it sometime.
    11 points
  18. 1. Tech will fill your car with 200F gasoline 2. Freeze your car to 0F 3. Fill one more gallon of 0F 4. Pump out the gas and heat it up Now you are DQed... I don't see that happening.
    11 points
  19. So we were the only team with a fuel cell measuring the total capacity already including the fuel that went up the filler neck? Interesting. Guess we gotta do a whole lotta nothing to comply.
    11 points
  20. Two Brothers Racing had an eventful weekend. We tested a few different setups on Friday, and settled on one we thought would be the most consistent. We were lacking speed we thought we needed but its the best we could do with our limited knowledge and time to work with. Saturday we took the green flag near the front. I set out to run a high pace right away to try and set up the guys later. We ran the full 2hrs event free and pitted from P4. Had some good (brief) battles with Rbank, Subliminal, and MiElan before needing to pit. At our next pit stop everything went south. Started with a not seated dipstick spilling oil, and getting black flagged. Then went to a power steering line coming loosed and ending the day with our 2nd Alternator failure in 2 years at the same track. We called it a day since we were so far out of it, bolted a new alternator in and sent our last driver out for a few tune-up laps before Sunday. =We added some ducting to cool the alternator, changed 1 brake pad that was suspect and buttoned it up for the run on Sunday. Sunday we started back half of the field. We were pulling a fuel strategy so we knew we couldn't run 100% and make fuel with our setup. We conserved fuel for the first stint and worked our way into the top 10. Swapped in a new driver and told him to bring it in when the surge light came on. Well shortly after out comes the double yellow, jackpot!. We waited for the field to bunch and when we knew we had our time mark met pulled him in for fuel. After lunch we knew we just had to run 2 clean 2hr stints and we would be sitting very well. Looking at the standings we knew (or thought we did) that everyone needed to make 2 stops but us and Tire Rack while we only needed one. As the stint wore on we saw people pit, and us move up the standings. About 1 hour in after lunch we realized at the pace rbank was running they were going to either try to make it on one fuel and 2 drivers or one fuel and one more driver. Whatever it was, even if they didn't conserve fuel they would be fast enough to make up the difference so i just washed my mind of that, nothing i could do but run our race. I jumped in for the last stint in P2, knowing everyone needed one more stop but Rbank and Tire Rack. At that point i knew we were running for a p2 finish against Tire Rack amd didnt worry about Rbank. I didnt even pay attention to Subliminal since we were up on them and they needed a pit stop. Well, wouldnt you know a FCY comes and i see subliminal in the pits. SHOOT! they came back out 1 lap down running 5-6 seconds a lap faster than what we were. I kicked it into 95% mode or whatever the car had left and watched them pass me and drive off into the distance now on the same lap. A few laps later they broke and i got the message i could slow down a bit and just conserve the car. Brought it home to a P2 finish witch we were very happy about. We learned a lot this weekend. Mainly we are outclassed by the top of the field in a few areas we need to address. We ran what I would consider our best possible race we could have Sunday had it not been for a few teams having problems we were a P4-5 team and that's ok. We need to get better as drivers and our car setup needs some attention as well. Congrats to all the podium finishers there are some very fast cars on the track! Congratulations to RBank, for the double win, we have got nothing on your team (yet). What we saw this weekend was how far behind a top team we are as drivers, and as mechanics if we want to be at that level we have a lot of work to do. Lastly we would like to thank Champcar and our fellow racers for the nomination for the Chandler School Sportsmanship award, We are honored that everyone thought we deserved that this weekend. We all plan to write our letters to the students at the chandler school, and most of all my eldest daughter wanted to help as well (she also helped build the engine we ran this weekend. For some monster cookies and lemonade she might spill the beans on all the cheaty stuff we did to it). We as a team have decided if my daughter puts in the effort to carry on a pen pal relationship and we receive the $1000 award for it the team will deposit that into my daughters college fund. Thank you to Champcar staff and volunteers for the enjoyable weekend. We look forward to the next one!
    11 points
  21. The Chunkysalmon Focus team had a great time! We have been working on this car (a 2008 Focus that I bought new in 2007) for about 2 years on and off. All of us work on or around cars for a living so it has been a struggle to find extra time to work on the race car after working on other cars all week. We prepped the car and trailer on Thursday, and on Friday arrived at the track and went thru tech. Tech only found some very minor things for us to address, which was a huge relief, because this is our first race with ChampCar, and our first time building a race car from the ground up. Saturday went well. We met our two goals for the weekend: Finish a race, and everyone gets seat time. We noticed how slow we were early on, and throughout the day started coming up with a list of things to change on the car over winter (not enough tire, too much body roll, etc.). All in all, we didn't finish dead last on Saturday, and the car didn't break. Sunday we only made it about 3 hours before the right front wheel hub broke. We knew about this possibility on this car, but decided not to pack spares (oops). We got a chance the rest of the day to walk around and look at everyone else's setups to see what we didn't think of, or what might be useful to us in the future. We had a blast and learned alot, and everyone was very eager to answer questions and just be friendly in general. Thanks to Money Shift Racing for selling us the roll padding and clamps we needed to pass tech!
    10 points
  22. None taken. What is the point then? I have been saying (for years) that champcar needs a clear 3 to 10 word mission statement that all rules are judged against. My opinion is, and has always been, make reliability items free. Make stuff that saves money free. Make performance items coat MOAR points.
    10 points
  23. Running back to back races at Gingerman and Mid Ohio meant there was a lot of work to be done in between. A Labor Day vacation with my wife sapped up some much needed prep time. Last Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday were spent repairing/replacing used up parts from Gingerman. The list included all 3 motor mounts, clutch master cylinder, 3 of 4 wheel bearings, Left side CV axle, brake pads x4, rotors x2, repair CAI tube bracket, repair secondary intake runner control cable, etc, etc, etc. We rolled into Mid Ohio Friday night about 6pm, late, tired and unorganized - something I knew was going to be the case - but we sure didn't want to miss this race! We made it here and were going to see how our car stacked up against a tough field!! We were fortunate to have @NigelStuBen Schaut as a teammate for this race, along with my scca gt3 racer/buddy Paul Young, my son Danny, and myself. That was going to be our driving order on Saturday. I knew and trusted that Ben would be the best guy to start the race as we knew there would be a lot of traffic with the number of cars entered. (I believe 69 took the green Saturday). Saturday morning we discovered 1 of the first of our mistakes when Danny came running down to the pit during the pace laps with the transponder in his hand! We were starting mid pack, called Ben in and figured it would only take 10-20 seconds to clip it on, and get him out behind the pack. 10-20 seconds turned into an agonizing time as this old guy placed the transponder on the bracket, then proceeded to fumble around for a full minute or 2, trying to 'find the hole' to put the clip in. A call for a ty-wrap did no good, as the box of 600 or so that Danny brought was up in the garage. A ty wrap came, but it was too short, and the clip was finally put in. Ben got as far as the chicane before the keyhole when the field took the green. So much for a great start!!! Ben proceeded to drive like he stole it, and was quickly moving up. An FCY early on trapped him behind the pace car and OFM light blue Mustang, effectively putting us 2 laps down to start the race. Ben ran a flawless 2 hours, and handed the car to Paul, who did the same. This is only Paul's 3rd endurance race, and each time he seems to get better at driving endurance laps in a grocery getter, instead of pushing too hard like he can in his GT3 purpose built car. We were just outside the top ten by shift end. Danny was up next and was concerned that he and I would not keep the positions that Ben and Paul had attained for us. He's made some huge progress in catching up to me speed-wise, but we both need more seat time to tighten the gap to our more experienced drivers. I told him not to worry about it, that was the plan, to put our 2 best drivers first, to see how competitive the car could be after making extensive upgrades over the past few years. Told him to just go out and drive, have fun, and get experience. I was going to run the 4th and final stint, but the week or 2 of "lotta work, little sleep" and my nerves were telling me I wasn't really ready to go 2 hours. A running joke within our many TAC and BoD chats/discussions is "will Mike ever get that Focus out to the racetrack?" @Rodger Coan-Burningham told me a month or so back that if I ever did, he would come "wheel the damn thing." I told Ben how I was feeling and said "I wonder if Rodger got to drive, since Cone Crushers broke early." Rodger had been helping with our pit stops, so I went to find him and posed the question. He said no, he hadn't driven, and I said, well get your gear, you're driving the Focus, just like you threatened and promised to do!!! His eyes lit up, and his buddies muttered something like "Damn, Rodger got a ride." Ben mentioned something, and I asked Rodger if he has driven an FWD ChampCar. His reply "Don't ya remember I set fast laps at xxx track when we put those sticky tires on Scotty's Maxima." I laughed remembering that story, and said come on buddy let's go. I was happy to put another great driver in the car and help to make it a more enjoyable weekend for him. Rodger did just what we expected him to do. He too, drove it like he stole it, and brought us back to a possible top ten. We would have needed some yellow flag help near the end, as we finished in 11th place, 1 lap and 5 seconds behind the 10th place ZTek Honda Accord. We were not only fighting for a top ten, but they took the B class win too. (Congratulations to Dave P. and his team!!!) Ben and I had some fun with Rodger in the closing laps. I called him on the radio and told him I thought he was a hot shoe, and that he wasn't coming close to Ben's times. He turned it up a bit and got within a half a second 1:45.4 to 1:45.9. We told him that wasn't good enough, he had to catch that Honda and then unlap himself. Ben tried coaxing him on by telling him the fastest driver doesn't have to pay... He started complaining about used up tires, and we told him that RS-4's get better with age. We just got them nice and warmed up for you. Or, what's the matter man, Huggy wins on those tires using them multiple weekends!!! Anyway, we were pretty happy with the result, knowing the top ten would have been ours had we not had the transponder issue early on. Even more rewarding was that the car was competitive in a tough field. We did our post race inspection, replaced a few worn parts and got ready for Sunday morning. Ben started again, and from our midpack slot, he was able to carve his way up into the top ten in the first hour, setting our FTD at 1:43.58 - a full 6 seconds a lap faster than last time running the Mid-O pro course in 2017!!! Our hopes for glory pretty much ended just past the first hour, as the left rear wheel bearing decided it had enough. We spent an hour in the garage making repairs and finished the rest of the day without further incidents or issues. Thanks goes out to our fellow Focus team, ChunkySalmon for supplying us with the replacement rear brake rotor that we needed. Danny got in the car and ran a lot of good laps between 1:46 - 1:48, with an FTD of 1:46.2. I was next and did similar, but threw a 1:45.98 in there. Paul finished out the weekend for us, again putting in good consistent laps in the 46's' to 48's. His FTD was 1:45.237. I can sum up the weekend at Mid-O, the Gingerman race, and the past 4 years of rebuilding the car, as an effort that our team is very proud of. We went from a mid pack car and team that "has potential" as Ben would often tell me, to a car/team that is now getting closer to the pointy end. It's a wonderful feeling to know that all the hard work, time and money are starting to pay off. Next up is developing parts to resolve the fragile wheel bearings, hubs and CV axles that are inherent weaknesses in these cars. My goal was to first get the mechanically grip correct and well balanced, before using aero to overcome inefficiencies or balance issues. We feel that the car is handling well enough to now proceed with that work. With better reliability, and the upcoming aero package, we are hoping to be a competitive team, near the pointy end more often than not. I'm getting long winded, as my friends know I can be, lol, so I know I'd miss mentioning all the folks who we are grateful to, if I tried to name them all. Ben and @Andrew D Johnson always come to mind first as our biggest supporters and people whom we confer with. And I can't thank @mender enough for all of the sound engine building advice, tips and specs to shoot for as I did our rebuild. (Yes, HE IS my big secret on where all that powa came from!!) Rodger put his live stream camera in the car for 3 stints on Sunday, and I absolutely LOVE hearing the sound of the screaming 2.0 zetec motor in that brick of a car it's in. Speaking of which, just a couple more of the laughs we had over the weekend - in TAC chats Monday, I asked Ben if the car drove like a little go cart without any power steering. He came back with his best Alain Prost comparison, and said it drove more like a dump truck! Then Rodger dreamed up another excuse why he wasn't as fast as Ben. It went something like this: "Hey Mike you know that wheel bearing that went bad was probably dragging a bit on me Saturday, losing me that 1/2 second to Ben." I told him hogwash, the grease was thinned out, you should have gone faster with less friction!!! Good times man, can't wait to do it, and see you all again soon. Here's a link to the live stream. I still haven't gone through it all, but found a few interesting moments. @enginerdtexted me yesterday and said "Whoa 1:14 - sit down first before watching." Ben @NigelStu Thanks for being the awesome and aware driver that you are -that could have been real ugly!
    10 points
  24. Team Hugh Jass ran their first (and only) race of 2021 last weekend, and it was great to be back on track with ChampCar and to have our team back together. Good to see some familiar faces in the paddock and to meet some racers who we know from the ChampCar iRacing Series. Friday test day went well (except for an unexpected trip to the gravel for myself on my first lap out of the pits) and we dialed in the car. Thank you to Brian for arranging the day. Track walk on Friday evening was also really useful; Mid-Ohio is an awesome track but the surface could definitely do with a refresh.... Saturday we started towards the front but got swallowed up by the field as we don't have the power to compete in a straight line. Still were able to run consistent laps and make up places where we could by running 2 hour stints. Slightly surprised by the lack of full course cautions as the safety workers were definitely committed to doing the hottest of hot pulls throughout the day. Had an unscheduled stop towards the end of the race as our driver was feeling unwell, but that did give us an opportunity to give special guest @Hurljohn a chance for some practice laps before he started the race on Sunday. Went out for dinner that night with the whole team plus the Cone Crushers guys; shout out to the Brown Derby Roadhouse for accommodating 25 hungry racers with no warning and doing a great job keeping us fed and full of beer. Sunday was similarly fun, John ran some quick laps in his opening stint and we were then able to maximise our strategy and work up the field. Unfortunately, radio issues then meant we lost car-to-pit contact which resulted in the final stop occurring 4 minutes before a rare pace car appearance when we could have prolonged the stint to pit under yellow. This meant I exited the pits right behind the leading CRX, who then kindly pitted and left me leading the field. Restart provided some moments of excitement as everyone was racy in the final hour. The leading Sahlens car had just lapped me when the pace car came out again, so got to repeat the experience of being passed 4-wide for a couple of laps. Had an interesting battle with the NTF Racing Civic in the final hour, they were probably 1-2s a lap slower than our car but had all the speed in a straight line. A close fight that highlights the variety of ChampCar and the challenge of endurance racing cars with vastly different characteristics. Brought it home 19th overall, achieving our weekend goal of a Top-20 finish and a car that departed the track in the condition in which it arrived. Thank you to all of ChampCar for putting on the event, and congratulations to the winners and all the competitors that made it to the end of the weekend, was a great time and we're looking forward to being back next year. Full race gallery to come, along with some more exciting video highlights; below is the pass I enjoyed most from Saturday - good racing with the Scrappy Doo Miata and the rest of the Mazda gang.
    10 points
  25. First you say no more debate about density, then you imply that some of us have a head density that's higher than most. I'll have you know the density of my skull is average or slightly above average at best.
    10 points
  26. Reading all this was painful, my thoughts, right or wrong. Correct me if mistaken but the board can come up with their own rules, transparency or not, we don’t need a petition to change something. Stock fuel tank cars have never been covered, and historically been allowed to open up/ use expansion space inside the tank via modified venting. The factory capacity listed on the car was generally accepted as a guideline & wasn’t set in stone based on the many variables discussed... generically speaking... based on the discussed physics, all the manufactures are going to have roughly a proportionate amount of expansion room for X number of gallons, regardless, of any holes people punch in this story, it kind of worked. Throwing change in after working this problem/issue for 10+ years is a big deal if applied to unmolested stock tank cars with blueprinted fuel pump pickups that have modified venting. The only reason cells were given a plus or minus 2 gallons was to make purchasing an aftermarket “safer“ fuel system cost-effective, of course, everybody went with the plus. Then Being racers, we had excuses why extended filler necks were necessary, even for easy to access fuel cells. There are 5 gallon calibrated containers used at gas stations by governing bodies to check honesty and accuracy, they’re easily available on eBay *To Anyone.* I’m not a trained engineering student but, nobody here is racing a car filled with nitrogen chilled gasoline, roughly speaking, the checking container will be about the temperature of the gas tank when the tests are performed, you don’t have to get this down to milliliter in precision to see what Fuel cells are fudging. This is for fun, please everybody remember that we are racing for junk parts trophies. Excessive or unnecessary fuel necks need to be looked at. Disclaimer: we have a short, larger fuel neck in place of a longer skinny one to make a fueling less messy, but would forgo that if necessary.
    10 points
  27. I’m confused with all the anger about this. The spirit was always +2 gallons totally. Just because they are going to actually enforce a rule doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world. If all the fuel limited cars start losing, request VPI decreases.
    10 points
  28. I would like to publicly thank Mike Chisek for his decade of service to the club. He did more for this club than most of you will ever know. He will be missed. But, he is on another path in life and will do well with that. Gonna miss you Mike.
    10 points
  29. Put some primer on the truck, no longer multicolored. Won’t be at Mid Ohio racing, but will be there to check it out sat morning. Truck won’t be ready, 2022 it is for our first race?
    9 points
  30. Work issues kept me tied up today and into the night. Just got a chance to see some of these comments. I didn’t see any board members in the discussion, so I figured I would jump in with a few comments. The whole temperature thing has been explained why it’s a non-issue for this topic pretty sufficiently by several posters previously so no need to hash that any further. The 2 gallon rule was more about closing the difference of cars with cells having the additional 2 gallons allowed by the rules plus whatever you can fit in a fill neck vs a stock tank. Just stick with stock tank vs cell in the same car, those with cells could have close to 3 gallons more in some cases. Yes, some stock tank can be made to hold more than listed volume, others not so much. This just eliminates that difference, you get 2 extra gallons max regardless of whether you install a cell or not. If you can only get factory listed capacity in your unmodified stock tank, you can install a cell and get two extra gallons. Or for example if you can modify your vent and get the two extra gallons in the stock tank, you don’t have to install a cell and still legally get that same capacity of the guy that installs a cell. Everybody gets the chance to have 2 extra gallons and only two extra gallons however you can get it and can be verified at impound. I understand that is pretty short and simplistic, but it’s late. I have to carry the casket of a good friend tomorrow so I probably won’t respond in the next day or two dealing with that. I don’t say that to invoke any kind of sympathy, it is merely an explanation of why I won’t be back here responding promptly. Hopefully it can wait until I get back, or one of the other board members can jump in.
    9 points
  31. Next you are going to try to convince me that a ton of feathers somehow weighs the same as a ton of bricks, Balderdash!
    9 points
  32. Teams, like yours, that are adversely effected by this rule really shouldn't be surprised. You knew you were gaming to get more fuel. You got away with it until now.
    9 points
  33. I cant believe that we are here, but here we are. Your statement is 100% wrong. Please try and understand what we are saying. Its the fuel that expands, not the cell. Please follow along and read this next part very carefully. Your car is emtpy. You take 15Gal in Florida and fill your cell. Its 100F air temp. Fuel is at 100f as well. Now take that car to Wisconsin. Start with it empty. Its 40f air temp and the fuel is 40f as well. The car will take 15Gal. If you left the 15Gal in the car from Florida to Wisconsin, it would absolutely shrink and allow more fuel in. But that's not what we are doing here. If you can't understand this, there's nothing we can do to help.
    9 points
  34. I'm kinda confused why this is suddenly an issue... Isn't this how cars were checked for fuel before? Didn't we have a wee bit of an incident earlier this year that set the precedent?
    9 points
  35. You guys are not understanding this. The fuel will change volume with temperature but the container won’t. The Penske trick was as I explained earlier. The cold fuel will heat up in the car and expand to a larger volume. But that’s only because of the rapid (relative) change in temp. It’s also because they were racing the car while it expanded. The fuel burn made it possible. If they filled it and it just sat in the pits, the fuel would expand and overflow out the car.
    9 points
  36. Miskoe’s had a good day. Coming off a trip to VIR that went poorly due to an electrical issue, we made the decision to go to this race only 10 days ahead of time. Drivers were my two sons Isaac and Garrett plus me. My wife Kathy is the team owner and CFO. Carl and Chris were there for the day to crew. We had some scheduling issues to contend with, Isaac had to move into his dorm at RPI on Friday morning. He left the house at 6am to go do that, but managed to get to the track in time to get in the car before the rain came in the afternoon. Garrett needed to take the SAT’s on Saturday, this would keep him from the track until after lunch on Saturday. But with my wife and an extra car on hand, Garrett made it to and from the test site and was ready to get in the car for the 2-4pm stint. Isaac and I split the morning driving. The race was pretty uneventful until the rain came. Isaac was in the car and when everything slowed down, he was having trouble seeing. We brought him in, wiped down the inside of the windshield, gave him a stick with a towel on the end of it. Being FCY, no laps were lost. About 1 lap later he’s on the radio screaming about needing to stop and he’s coming in. I got him to stay out and explain the problem – He had thrown up in his helmet. This took place about 5:50, 10 minutes shy of when we could install his brother to finish the race without exceeding the 2 hour limit. I managed to convince him to stay out one more lap and got ready for a stop. I was not prepared for what I found when I went to get him out of the car. Vomit from his lap to his chin. Oh boy. But armed with a roll of blue-roll I wiped it up a bit and stuffed Garrett in and strapped him down. Gloves would have been nice. I thought I was done cleaning up bodily rejects from him about 17 years ago, I guess being a parent never quite stops. Garrett goes out and within 10 minutes is complaining that the smell was making him sick and he didn’t know if he could do it. I told him that who ever finished the race wasn’t cleaning the car. But this wasn’t enough of a deterrent and he came in next lap and I got in. I have a terrible sense of smell and never noticed. Plus there was no way I was walking away from a win just because it smelled bad. Luckily through all this we had a decent lead over the guys behind us, so once it went green I drove conservatively, no heroics, no risky moves. Brought the car home in P2 overall P1 in A class. A couple of take-aways – The aero work helped, but didn’t make the car as faster as we hoped. Driving over 5-1/2 hours of a 12 hour race will make you tired and sore the next day. Don’t eat a big basket of chicken fingers right before you get in the car. There’s a joke in there somewhere about “going like stink” for the last stint.
    9 points
  37. Ummm, this currently resides in Wisconsin and is a blast to run against.....
    8 points
  38. If your starting fresh with a new build and a new team follow some advice we were given by @Andrew D Johnson our first weekend. "I wouldn't worry about going fast, worry about keeping the car on track first". At the time it seemed simple, but clean pits stops, no contact, no penalties, and keeping 4 wheels on track all day is a lot harder than it sounds. Do this and it will gain you more positions than being 2sec a lap faster to start.
    8 points
  39. Finally picked up a trailer. 24', finished interior with cabinets, new tires and new brakes, electric jack, AC, wired with outlets, e-track on floors and walls.
    8 points
  40. I'll jump in.... it's not just free items it's lower value on items. I now have a swapped trans, swapped engine, aero devices front and rear, an aluminum rad, coilovers, etc.... When we started racing in champcar this car when mostly stock was 540 pts... So, yeah, there has been things that are lower value or free sometimes that are leading to increased spending and decreased laptimes The solution I like for this the best is to give all reliability items for zero points, but jack the crap out of performance items. Double engine swap points, double or triple aero stuff, etc. All the oil coolers, radiators, oil pans, accusump you want... all free.
    8 points
  41. So the podium cars get a free tank of fuel as well as a trophy?
    8 points
  42. What was checked was the cell capacity, not all the ways that one could get extra by stretching the idea of what a direct route for the filler neck was. This closes a loop hole, a gray area, whatever. It also makes it a bunch easier for tech in impound. Some cars would take a fair amount of disassembly to get to the cell to measure it directly. I think this is a very good move by the BOD. There might be some cars that have to back down power now. I think you are right Rob, a lot of people are making this way to complicated. If you don't want problems with your capacity don't size your system for -20 degrees in January or 115 in August. Oh and leave just a tiny bit of cushion and have some fun. Keep calm and race on.................
    8 points
  43. I don't post often as I race EC and focus more on other series (I love the thick fields of champcar, the paddock, and other things, but I hate this rule book). This is a shitty rule change flat out (coming from a BMW racer). Maybe I am out on my own here, but why not allow any car to go two hours? Have a max fuel amount for displacement or # of cylinders? Make pit stops only 3 minutes? Then adjust VPI accordingly. This kills any car that is close on gas (miatas, fox bodies, etc). The series is going to get to a point within the next 5 years where all of the new cars coming in are limited on gas (newer hondas come to mind) what are we going to do then? Be a vintage car only series where parts are NLA or more expensive than the entry fee?
    8 points
  44. I think the low percentage of member responses has to do with how the response system worked this year. Most members don't have have an opinion on all petitions, and none are an expert on all. By forcing full completion to allow form submittal, you require people to vote on things they may not want to. You also increase the time it takes to get through the process. If I don't have a firm understanding of an issue, I don't want to vote on it. This year, I scanned the petitions and would have preferred only to vote on a dozen or so. The rest I'd have left blank. Instead I had to waste time slowly scrolling and clicking. We need to streamline this process, make it fast and easy, and more people will take the time to vote. Especially if we institute a rule that forces the BOD to vote with the members if we vote above a certain percentage. And yes, all voting and minutes should be public.
    7 points
  45. You asked for an example. I gave you one. I don't care to dissect it. I didn't ask for it, and I was against it. Same with the BS E30 swap weight. You can try to trivialize every example of free parts being used to make cars faster. Doesn't change the fact that 100% of the time, allowing free parts, allows speed creep.
    7 points
  46. I was wondering, but boy he's committed. I gotta go, my coffee is getting cold and overflowing the cup.
    7 points
  47. Regarding previous comments about 20 minute pump out and storing several jugs of hot pumped out fuel in impound: Who’s finishing a race with a full tank of fuel? The only way that would happen for me is if the last 1.5 hours were red flagged! If I have to stop for fuel with 30 minutes left I’m putting in 5 gallons, not topping it off. Yes, some concerns about pumping out are valid, but let’s be real, no team who is on the podium will have finished the race anywhere near a full tank of fuel.
    7 points
  48. Hi all, Just wanted to chime in here with a few thoughts, many of which have already been stated in the other VPI thread (admittedly, I read through several pages but had to skim others and read through a few pages that discussed the NC). A little background since I don't post here... I come from Spec Miata, having had three of them over the past 10 years. We started in ChampCar using an old 1.6L Miata in pretty much complete SM trim. While we had a blast, it was not fun to get parked in the corners where we needed to carry speed, only to have that same car prevent us from passing because we were out-motored. (You could say we should be more aggressive in braking and cornering, but we weren't trying to drive like donkey-holes.) That is what lead to the WTF Green Miata being built (it is not my car, a friend had it built). Getting to race that car was a great experience because we were no longer victim to the "slow cars in and fast out." I had wanted to start my own ChampCar team and the stars finally aligned with the right people at the right time. We decided last November to build a car. The car we chose was the NC. I did have a few years running SCCA T4 with an NC and loved the chassis, but mostly loved how much better I fit in the car. We were finally able to purchase the right donor this past January and have been working on the build (very slowly) since. We had originally planned to have the car on track about now for some shakedowns, but my teammates have had an unexpectedly busy year at work. The car currently sits mostly stripped and we probably have 90% of all our parts purchased. Just offering my "outside" perspective, but I'm almost glad our build has taken so long as I'm now questioning if we will even move forward with entering ChampCar at all. As stated in the other thread, I do NOT think it is wise to VPI an entire chassis based almost solely on the result of one team's campaign. There are WAY too many factors involved as many have brought up. Car prep and driver quality are huge. As we can see, Grant has taken the car prep to an extremely high level. He could ostensibly do this with any car or chassis. Also, the track has a lot to do with strengths of a car. Some tracks play into the smaller and more nimble cars (Miatas) and other tracks play into the higher-HP cars favor. Our team had planned to do a high-quality build, but knew we would not come close to the lightweight of Grant's car. We decided it was not worth taking debris to the face and would run a windshield. I do believe Grant's car had a Titanium exhaust, correct? Who else is doing this in ChampCar? I know we had NO plans to go that far with car prep. Anyway, it sure feels like ChampCar is still really struggling with the Champ vs. Chump migration and a lot of the racers are too. We bought our NC donor car for LESS than what we could get a clean NA/NB chassis to cage (and luckily before prices of all used cars went through the roof). The idea to run a newer car that has not had a lot of development was appealing. Knocking down the NC right now based on Grant's team seems like a kneejerk reaction and it would really feels like ChampCar wants to stay a series of 30-year-old "Chump" cars. The only thing that seems secure from the ChampCar VPI is making an investment in building an E30, NA/NB Miata, etc... Any investment in building a race car is significant (time and money). I understand that VPI can somewhat of a moving target, but constantly changing it and really, discouraging newer cars to be built just means that ChampCar will never free itself from the same E30/NA NB Miata, 30-year-old cars and that "Chump" mentality. So ChampCar, where do you want to take the series?
    7 points
  49. Someone please get Bill Nye here.....
    7 points
  50. Subliminal racing wants to say thanks to the Champcar staff for putting on an great event. We had fun hanging out with Andrew and Dave from Rbank. It was good to see Kevyn and his team again also. We had a tough weekend. Ran strong all day Saturday. With over an hour to go I noticed the afr’s we’re creeping up. Few laps later it would got 17-1. I could keep it under 15-1 if I just slightly tipped in So I made the call to stay out. During the last part of the stint I talked to the next driver coming in about how to drive the car and make it live. We were able to hang onto 2nd place. The Wally keeps eluding us forsure! Sunday was going well, that long yellow hurt us bad and helped others so that put us back in the “chase” the way fuel stops landed. After the first stop we noticed the car had blew thru the drivers outside pad. We have had nothing but issues with the wilwood brake system on the car. So I had to swap out that pad at the next stop. That cost us some time. Ended up breaking a rocker stud with an hour to go. That has been our first engine related failure in 3000 track miles with this car so we are happy about that. All in all good weekend and we came back with some valuable data to make us better as a team. The vette has been a difficult car to campaign to say the least. Thanks to everyone that stopped by and offered words of encouragement!
    7 points
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