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  1. Why cant we just get rid of points for anything that makes the car more reliable but doesn’t make it any faster. Lets say my cars vpi is 500pts. I want to put a better radiator on it to help cool the engine better. I take a 30 pt hit for that and that now costs me 3 laps. That radiator doesn’t make my car any faster to make up those 3 laps. We spend thousands of dollars to go to these races and that doesn’t include the cost of building the car. I want to run the entire weekend and not have to worry about overheating the car, starving the engine of oil, or overhe
    15 points
  2. I’m running. Member number 666e30. My platform has one plank and it is to lower the e30 VPI to 150. I expect all the e30 team members to vote for me. Yes, I do accept bribes. No, I will not take a literacy test.
    14 points
  3. Is the middle ground that location where everyone has to follow the rules? I'm happy to compete against teams with deep pockets, if they don't get the rules rewritten for them!
    14 points
  4. Just wanted to add a note to address a few things I have seen come up already. As the Tech Writer, the fact that the tech desk is not updated at this time is 100% on me, and I apologize for that. I will be working on it moving forward to ensure the articles that were migrated to the BCCR are "retired" - no need for this info to be in two places at once. There is some timeframe questions to address however - For example, this article is clearly in the 2021 bccr, however it is not in the 2020 version. I do not think I should retire it until 01Jan2021, as otherwise there is a "gap
    12 points
  5. If you had video proof proving you didn't deserve a penalty would you want the ED to see that and give you your laps back? This works both ways. Don't pass under yellow and you don't have to worry.
    12 points
  6. I think everybody wants everybody to finish. It's up to the team captain to spend their points on reliability versus speed parts to make that happen. If a captain chooses speed parts over reliability, that ain't champcar fault. If all reliability items become free so everybody finishes, speed parts need to be increased in value about 2 fold. In other words, you are simply asking for champcar to take the decision of speed versus reliability away from the captain. Edit to give a real world example... troy, your vpi is what 250? An oil
    11 points
  7. In a large bowl, combine the beef, egg, onion, milk and bread OR cracker crumbs. Season with salt and pepper to taste and place in a lightly greased 5x9 inch loaf pan, OR form into a loaf and place in a lightly greased 9x13 inch baking dish. Step 3 In a separate small bowl, combine the brown sugar, mustard and ketchup. Mix well and pour over the meatloaf. Step 4 Bake at 350 degrees F (175 degrees C) for 1 hour.
    11 points
  8. Funny how extreme the rules have to get when all we need is the Race Director to start throwing black flags at the offenders. The board already said its the race directors responsibility to enforce this via black flag. They just need to do it.
    11 points
  9. 14 pounds is more than just a little bit of a weight savings. Free weight is what you are able to remove from the car & chassis you shouldn't be able to buy a light weight part without being charged points
    10 points
  10. We are a team with 2 new builds and an existing build for 2021. We love Champcar for the great racing and tracks. That being said I am somewhat irked about how many free points are being handed out each year. I don’t want to have to go buy a new radiator, new alternator, new willwood big brake kits, etc. if these are free in terms of points, the best/fastest teams will typically (not always) take advantage and use them. This means I’m forced to do it as well if I want to be competitive and isn’t that what we all want. If reliability mods become free, I’ll have to buy an oil cooler, e
    9 points
  11. I could not agree more and I think a lot of people agree, but some do not. I think a lot of people that do not need reliability items would rather have someone fail and them win then race to the end. I want to see people, myself included, finish a race and battle to the end. A customer who finishes a race will race again. A customer who blows up and does not have funds to race again may not race again, will cancel events and might quit al together. I blew up my engine at PIRC. I do not have the time to get another or the money right now to spend on the car as I used all my race f
    9 points
  12. I applaud the clarity. Continuous improvement is a process not an event and this is a step in the right direction. The 2020 rules in effect for the championship mucks things up a bit, but I like the direction. A recommendation however is that the vision and mission are added prominently to the start of the BCCR. All rules should be interpreted through the lens of that vision and mission. If there is an interpretation that can go one way or another, the one that best aligns with the vision and mission should be used. I also wished some more of the fix th
    9 points
  13. 246: 156 Race Hours, 48 of those driven by me 10,134 Race Miles 146: 254 Race Hours, 70 of those driven by me 15,702 Race Miles Total Races as a Car Owner: 28 Rental Cars: Races: 14 Tracks: 8 Hours Driven: 35 Number of hours of formal race driving instruction - 0 Number of racing schools attended - 0 Number of racing licenses obtained - 0 Champcar is awesome.
    9 points
  14. At Pittrace this weekend we finally had the showdown between the IPF minibike and my electric ATV. Despite pulling 260 Amps at 55 Volts I got beat so bad that I brought shame to my family, shame to my race team, and have set back EVs another decade.
    9 points
  15. It came to my attention today that the published 2021 VPI table contains red cells, but those cells have nothing to do with changes from Q4 2020 to 2021, so I made some easier to interpret versions. These are unofficial! No Champcar BOD, Tech, or Staff have reviewed. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK No Guarantees, this is probably not completely accurate or accurately complete. Ok, with that out of the way. These are the weight changes I found: Make Model Year VPI Curb Champ Q4 2020
    8 points
  16. Starters and alternators that aren’t part of swap or original should be points. I have trouble understanding why it’s so hard to stick to the “there is no free part” rule it’s been there forever and keeps getting run over.
    8 points
  17. It would work if we all followed the guidelines.
    8 points
  18. Yes, but WHY? In September they were free....how? How did tech desk 5 points become free? I just don’t see a reason here other than “some big spender put an aftermarket alternator on his car and didn’t claim it for the 5 points and we didn’t want to bump him to 505 points”. Radiator change: petition was made, there are arguments about the benefits of changing the way radiators are valued / not valued. Shock change: same deal Alternator change: ??? Nobody on the forum was asking for free alternators. Nobody has publicly come forward to say “my car can’t
    8 points
  19. OK, I'll just come right out and say it - that was really dumb. You had this mostly unassuming thing sitting out there at 5 points that a team with 5 points to spare could look at and say "should I go with that fancy alternator or should I make myself some dive planes [or other helpful item that can be made with ~5 points of material]? Hmmm, decisions decisions..." Now everybody has to go out and buy a stupid expensive fancy alternator to keep up with the big spenders. Perfect example of what everyone is complaining about. (I'm not even going to address the
    8 points
  20. I am still a amature. No licences. No previous experience. Bought a car that had ran champ before. Just jumped in and came racing. One car. Two tracks. 3 years. No wins. Mid pack car. Small team. 2 stints per day. 1.5 hrs approx per stint. Just racing 20 to 25 hours of wheel to wheel racing. Some test and tune and autocross not figured. This year was the first year I was not wrapped up in knots at the start. I was relaxed, in control, confident about my car and abilities. It takes some experience to get things going. I really hope the pros with all this time under there belt help out the newbi
    8 points
  21. Oh really? This is rich hearing a Lexus driver mocking bmw transmissions...
    8 points
  22. You hit the nail on the head. Certain people think having a Riley and his deep pockets coming and whipping up on everyone is good. Certain people think its horrible. Trying to find that middle ground is where the work is done.
    8 points
  23. When using this point to talk about radiators, I wonder how many assume factory design is insufficient/unreliable vs trying it first to see what really works. Like @QuaTTro we ran the factory 15 yr old plastic/aluminum radiator 23,000 race miles on top of its 100,000+ street miles before a wall ended its cooling career, from there, a used parts store explorer plastic/aluminum rad went in, met the same fate a couple years later. Just saying.
    7 points
  24. This applies directly to the GBU corvette. Factory starters on Ford/Mopar/GM in the 60s and 70s were giant and heavy direct drive units. GM varied the design into the 90s application dependant. Then for the last few years of the legacy Small Block (Pre LS) they switched to a modern gear reduction starter. A few different companies make conversion units that put a gear reduction starter where a direct drive belongs. There's no reliability benefit, but you shave 10+ pounds off the nose, and you gain clearance for larger exhaust. It is a performance benefit,
    7 points
  25. See my response below. This is the way that I think and the way that I vote in regards to items when petitions come up. The VPI is set and the FPV is there so that teams can choose how they want to build their car. So I think everyone forgets that Tech has the ability to assign points per the BCCR. These are interpretations. As I mentioned before earlier in this thread that the Tech Desk was created so there were no more emails going through the system and there was a check and balance with TAC, BOD, and Tech being on the same page.
    7 points
  26. Thanks Jerry! The problem isn't alternator per se. Its because a team basically asked for something for free and it was just handed to them. Why do we need to write a petition for something that wasn't petitioned to go into the rules? Why c ant we just follow the bccr? I didn't think rules could be made up (unless safety) without a petition.
    7 points
  27. You did great work with the tech desk. Tech / management created the monster by saying “yes” so many times.
    7 points
  28. Commenting on the radiator wording issue. I'm taking it as a success that this is the biggest issue we have found so far. I believe the appropriate wording for 4.3.2 would be "Radiator greater than 1x cost: 30 pts", and my suggestion would be for you to interpret it that way if you are shopping for radiators, as that is what I understood the intent to be based on direction from the BOD. If you choose to interpret it as the dealership OE part's cost, I doubt you will find success with that argument. Now, outside of the tech writer, this is what I have always und
    7 points
  29. Sure you can show up with no experience and come race with us. As Bill says, it will most likely always be that way with Champcar. But, I think it would be helpful to most drivers to get some experience on track outside of a wheel to wheel race. Go to a DE and let somebody talk you through car control. You will come to a race better prepared to deal with the traffic by knowing what a proper line is, etc. It's not necessary, but most people will enjoy their race experience more if they know a little more about how to drive a car on track. You don't need hours and hours, but a DE or two mi
    7 points
  30. Late to the party here but let me just say: On the original topic of adjustable toe links, before the tech desk was a thing I specifically emailed to see if I could take an OEM BMW sway bar link, which is a solid, round metal rod with two ball joints at the end, cut it in half, thread the ends, and run them into a coupling nut secured with lock nuts to make an ajustable sway bar link and was told in no uncertain terms - zero points, fabrication and fasteners are free. On the topic of repurposing material to make items on the fixed point value list, this is 100% allowed
    7 points
  31. We had lawyers present during our meeting. They are not playing games. If 2 people are seen without their mask. They will black flag the race, and there will be a talk. Then when everyone is masked up, we will resume racing. 2 minutes later, if someone is caught without a mask again, then the black flag all is shown and we repeat. Some drift event had the same rules. They got black flagged a few times before they finally got it. I am pretty certain you guys are smarter than the average drifter. As soon as you enter the facilities, wear a mask: Mask = Helmet with face shi
    7 points
  32. Life’s a bitch sometimes, June 9 I posted this...today it was moved from that spot to the front where it was installed, some adjustments to the bent frame rails had to be made but now we have a roller! no clue when, but the next photo will be a Nissan engine sitting in place.
    7 points
  33. -1 Full steam ahead ,time permitting, lease on the shop dependent, our new build is even better off after seeing the board meeting and the GBU car. If everyone would quit trying to shoot fish in a barrel and just build something slightly more modest then their wildest race car dreams, all will be fine.
    7 points
  34. FYI, I'm not running again this year either...I believe there are members that are better suited for the position and that have more time. I'm backing Rodger Coan, team captain of BurningHam to take my seat. He is highly capable, very passionate, been an active member of the TAC, an overall nice guy to work with in a collaborative effort, and he's been racing Champcar for many years.
    7 points
  35. OMG, Troy, if you want tires bigger than your car, you have to add flares. If you have to add material to make flares, you have to take points. Tires bigger than your car are probably going to cost you points. It's algebra A=B B=C A=C. Not wanting to take laps on your 500 point car is not a justification for making something free!
    7 points
  36. Naw. Nobody is forcing anybody to make fender flares. Also, I don't really care if my looks like crap. If you don't want sharp stuff, clarify the rule so you can't have sharp stuff. Free fender flares is just more free stuff. You realize you would be giving gbu back points, right?
    7 points
  37. I wish I would have known what a shitstorm alternators and starters would be, sorry guys. So I've been educated on an advantage of a lightweight alternator is. Anyone got those same concerns about starters? I mean, they start the car. That's it. And they carry weight. We can make a 300 page rulebook if we want to carry this to the nth degree. BTW I have been in on those conversations about these items bearing points. There was no backdoor deal with the Board, that i can assure you. in fact we have a NOT unanimous vote on the IRS and the majority on the Board thought those i
    6 points
  38. It is a very small advantage. It isn’t the magnitude of the advantage that upsets people. The ChampCar rulebook has always stated (with documented exceptions), and the precedent all along has been: is it stock? Y —-> no points N —-> points It’s an extremely simple line in the sand and “it isn’t a big advantage” is a really stupid reason to cross that line.
    6 points
  39. Ummm.... why would somebody change it then? An obvious non stock alternator is not hard to tech. If it looks stock or stockish, fine. If it looks like a racing style alternator, points. This wasn't an issue until Riley showed up with one. Why make a new ruling because 1 team asked for it?
    6 points
  40. I voted for alternators to be 5 points, I was not in the majority. I don't know how tech desk points became free. They were points in February then switched to free in September. I also have a problem with it and don't understand how this did not go through. I sent a letter to TAC, tech and the BOD about some of these issues. The Tech Desk was suppose to be somewhere that Tech could look at interpretations during the year. They should be able to reference back decisions that were made. This is why we also have the knowledge base. I do not know how something can be points then free in t
    6 points
  41. Well I just got off the phone with Siebkens. It looks like the Stop Inn Tavern is open on Friday, Sat and Sunday and no restrictions to capactiy. Who is all coming to enjoy some drinks at Siebkens with us? This is a very important part of this weekend
    6 points
  42. I have run ST-43’s, ST-45’s, and ST-47’s for about 7 or 8 years now. I have bought them pre bedded, bedded then myself, and just slapped them in and gone racing. I have seen zero difference so I just bed them in if I get time or just put them in and go. I run a rotor that’s what’s on sale from advance or car quest. The thing a lot of people miss is the condition of calipers. If they are stiff, rebuild them or replace them. That seems to have more impact on variability of wear. I am not arguing what others have found, if it works for them it works for them. But nothing is
    6 points
  43. There is no instant replay in auto racing. If a call is made and it's wrong we just have to move on. Next time you might get a break. The corner workers are human just like us and will not always get it right. The best thing to do is not pass under yellow and when there is a time that you might think you might be in the wrong don't take the risk.
    6 points
  44. I think this is where the issue comes in. I'll use the Pinto from COTA as an example: 50% of the pinto speed is actually slower than the pace car speed. So the driver might feel like 'well they said 50%' but it should be 50% of the leaders pace, not 50% of YOUR pace.
    6 points
  45. This was our first time to Pittrace. We were disappointed to move our Mosport entry to this event....we were proven to be very wrong in that assessment.. What a facility and track! Challenging course and a great facility around it. The track has to be one of the better ones we've run at. Takes major commitment and awareness to click off a decent lap there, even without any traffic around. I can say every lap was a blast and I hope we go back soon. Many thanks to the Champcar staff and volunteers who make it all happen!
    6 points
  46. Many series have priced themselves out of existence with the "if we are only allowed to have (spend money on) it will save money in the long run....." argument. Simple rule would have been, stock wheel opening "0" points anything more = points
    6 points
  47. Rules need to be policed as they are written in the rule book. 8 contact points seems pretty simple. With the allowed driver-foot box bars that number should now be 10. If a rule becomes outdated it still needs to be enforced as it is written until it is changed in the rule book. Bolt in cages are allowed if done safely was someone denied entry because of a bolt in cage? Tech should understand what the rule is "Intended" to mean and stick to it and not let someone compete in an Illegal car because they talked Tech into letting the car be legal. When I took over our local Friday nigh
    6 points
  48. Alright, knock it off y all. All will be revealed at road america (hopefully).
    6 points
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