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wvumtnbkr

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Posts posted by wvumtnbkr

  1. So, this current iteration doesn't use much roll plastic.  But, in the past I used roll plastic where the aluminum brackets to hold the splitter on and where the brake ducts are.  

     

    Temps currently run about 160 f unless we run some tape on the ducting.

     

    Not shown is the entire airdam that Is made of roll plastic.

     

    Pm me for more info.

     

     

    You can see the tiny silverish gurney flap at the front behind the headlights 

  2. 163192694649127708316.jpg.07cf39616b11f13f98d6860588e53990.jpg lo1631926874614185690085.jpg.147ec19a3593b26ae085f8a79f59be45.jpg

    3 hours ago, QuaTTro said:

    Thanks!  Do you have any pictures of your ducting?  I'm a very visual person and new to this type of fabrication.  Assume I would make a template out of cardboard and then build the real thing out of roll plastic?

    Sure!  But, the nice thing about roll plastic is that you don't really need to do the cardboard step.  Same way you cut and trim cardboard, you can do with roll plastic.

     

    I have recently changed how my splitter is mounted and now use the splitter mounts as part of the ducting.   I also use the brake ducting as radiator ducting.

     

    Here comes pics....

  3. 6 minutes ago, atxe30 said:

    no disrespect, but i think you are too far down in the weeds. i'm not talking about the granular points, i'm trying to get to the practicality of the rule set.

    None taken.

     

    What is the point then?

     

    I have been saying (for years) that champcar needs a clear 3 to 10 word mission statement that all rules are judged against.

     

    My opinion is, and has always been, make reliability items free.  Make stuff that saves money free.  Make performance items coat MOAR points.

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  4. 2 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

    Also, I wonder if we have a master list of the items that have turned free and also ones that used to be free and now are points. Maybe if I have time I can go through the old BCCR's to make a list. Then we can really see what has changed long term. Hubs were free and now 2.5 points, headers for swaps, flywheels, radiators, ect. 

     

    For me

    I was at 500 points in Bio1. I have a swap, for anyone that did not know.

    I got a 25 point increase due to headers not included anymore.

    I also got a 10 point increase for the alum radiator. I could have bought an oem one at 440, but no thanks.

    I also got a 10 point increase on an alum flywheel.

    I also get 5 points for hubs that used to be free.

    I went up 50 points and got 5 laps.

    If raced I was just going to race EC at point, but dismantled it to make a new car.

     

    So my perspective of all these so called free items making speed creep might be for other teams as I am not seeing it for myself at all. 

    Hubs were actually 10 pts each as a suspension component, but for some reason never enforced.  It was REDUCED to 5 pts total.

    • Like 2
  5. 50k?  Hollleeeee.  Shiiiittteeeee!

     

    I'll pipe up here....

     

    Troy is convincing me that champcar is not really any more expensive to run than it was before.

     

    However, I would like to see a rules freeze for a few years and see what happens.  No more free stuff.  If we add something for reliability that's free, I suggest increasing the value of an item on the performance side.

     

    An example would be... we now have free radiators, add 5 or 10 points to rear wings.

     

    Free the oil pans...  5 or 10 points more for airdam.

     

    T hat gets rid of my ONLY argument about free stuff.  

     

    I would be happy, AND, we would be closer to free reliability items and more points for performance.

     

    Whatcha think?

     

    P.s. 50k for a champcar build is WAY out of line.

     

     

    Also, sahlens....  they are a grassroots team and always have been.  Yes, they have some nice stuff.  However, go talk to them.  Look at their tires (probably not throwing new tires on as much as people might think) Ask questions.  They aren't throwing huge money around on a champcar weekend.  They already have the race team and the gear.  Let them use it.  We used to run right with them when they ran 2nd gen rx7s (and so did we).  Beat them as often as they beat us.  

     

    Edit...  I have been informed that the sahlens cars may be using more tires (and the sticky ones) in a weekend, possibly doing more with the engines, and some other actions that they did not do in the past.  Ill be paying attention to see if they have jumped the shark...

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  6. Ooph.  Complicated answers to these questions...

     

    Check out the engine swap sections and platform swap sections of the rulebook.

     

    Quick answer:  if you put in the 3.0 engine, you have basically recreated a 330.  You would use the value of the 330.

     

    That being said, if you put in the engine and trans from the 325 into your current car (If current car is an e46), you could claim the 325 value.

     

    In other words, vins don't matter.  The vehicles are valued based on how they are presented at tech and impound.  That means if it started as a 325 and it now has all 330 "stuff", it is now a 330.

     

    The Porsche 944 have some interesting rules regarding that platform.  I'm not sure if it's ever been fixed.  Basically, I believe you CAN swap in a s2 engine into the 944 and use the simple swap calculator.  This ends up a lower value than the s2 value.

     

    That being said, it's probably time for y'all to go study the swap rules and platform swap rules and get familiar with the swap calculator.

     

    Good luck.

    • Like 1
  7. 2 hours ago, tyler_j said:

    Hmmm, so any aftermarket off the shelf product is not allowed (besides safety devices).  That does seem like a fun but also brutal build process.

    Seems like a good challenge for someone in champ. Take a car and only use modified OEM or custom made parts and see if you can get a top 5.

    Anyone want to take this on??

     

    SilveradoSierra.com • Stock wheels and adding offset : Wheels/Tires

    Is this material or free since wheels are free?

    Free cuz wheels are free...

     

    So, other than wheels and springs, or driver comfort items...  that's pretty much my car.

     

    I imagine that is a lot of cars in champcar.  Not too many aftermarket parts are worth spending points on in champcar.

    • Like 2
  8. 1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

    One mistake I did when I started with a slow car (datsun) was that I half-assed things instead of saving and doing it right once. 

     

    For instance, let say the $1500 coilovers are the part to have. Then it makes sense to wait until you have that money to buy them instead of spending money on lowering springs, different, shocks etc. In the end you will save money doing it right the first time.

     

    Ask in this forum about what a good setup is, still plenty of NA/NB miatas that win races.

    This is very true for safety items and radio communications as well.

     

    I think most teams spend money twice for these type things with the thinking that it will be "good enough"...  It usually isn't...

    • Like 5
  9. 3 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

    The term speed creep is used to justify not changing X rule because team A does not need X and does not want team B to have X, even though it does not really cause speed creep.

     

    Perfect example just brought up is offset bushings. If you get your camber right the tires will wear even and you can get much more life out of them. The speed gain you have it minimal if at all unless you are going for FTD full out flying lap every single lap. The overall speed average will most likely be exactly the same, but you might get another race out of that set of tires. Saves money.

     

    Another is free alum radiators. No one is overheating now, not a single car in Champcar, yah, go ahead, try to find one, I will wait. If you add an alum radiator you will most certainly be slower. Reasons, they are almost always heavier. BTW- more weight makes a car slower, I know, crazy concept. So cheaper alum radiators actually saves teams money and makes them slower.

     

    Another is the pressured radiator overflow containers. On the Miata NC I could buy a new one at like $180 every other race and never ever have to worry about it. If I try to be cheap and save money then at race 4-5 it might blow, leave water on track and blow up my engine. If I just buy and alum one, one time cost of $180 I am good for life. Saves me money and is safer. I think the E30 is the same. As much as E30's are a direct and fierce competitor I want to see them not blow up, save money and race me to the end.

     

    Accusump, adds a considerable amount of weight and saves engines from blowing up on track, oil on track, costs, ect. It does not add speed, but is points. I really wish we could asses points based on actual speed and not reliability and I wonder if the club as a hole will ever come to that thinking with us so stuck in the past.

     

    Let us Yell Speed Creep if there is anything free that someone else might have and a good portion of it the time it is because people hope others fail so they can do well.

    This is your perception.

     

    I am one of the most vocal about giving free stuff away....

     

    I have never come at it fr9m the perspective of slowing others down so I can maintain some "advantage".  

     

    The free stuff in a few cases just allows teams to spend more points on items that can then make their car faster.  Once a car goes faster, everybody that wants to stay competitive needs to spend money to do so....

     

    In other words, we have some stupid rules.  Speed creep is coming from tires and natural evolution.  I don't think anybody is arguing that.

     

    It seems some teams are able to run the same budget and go faster.

     

    I have spent more money to keep pace.

     

    That is just my car choice apparently.

     

    I get that.  I'm done arguing about cost creep.

     

    Just don't put words in people's mouths please.

     

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  10. 49 minutes ago, Grant said:

    I'm from FL so don't know anything about Road America, but didn't they change the track around? Spec Miatas have run 2:42s so 2:43 is not exactly quick by Champ standards. Even the slower big tank cars routinely exceed SM times.

     

    Maybe look at Sebring? That hasn't changed.

     

    A decade ago I had the fastest laps at Sebring, a 2:36 while conserving heavily in a Z32. Driven flat out it could probably have done 33s. Fast forward 6 years and the #225 SC300 wins with Randy Pobst turning a 2:33. Both cars make almost exactly the same amount of power. The Z is lighter but the Lexus has better aero. The differences came from:

     

    1) Not conserving fuel

    2) Better driving (Randy)

    3) Faster overall race pace, so less passing needed

     

    In December we are going to try very hard to turn faster lap times than Crowd Control, in a 162whp Miata. I can guarantee you that's not cost creep. We'll definitely be a lot faster than #225 car, primarily because of driving (I'm much better now) and tires (Coopers > RS4s). An NC is not a better Sebring car than an SC300, not by a long shot.

    The difference at RA is that spec miata doesn't run the chicane.  We do.  It is worth 7 to 10 seconds.

     

    I agree with everything else.

     

    • Like 2
  11. 2 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

    Those are my observations as well. I used to say 20% of the drivers are good in Champcar and the other 80% need more time to develop their skills and race craft. Now I say 80% of the drivers are good and only 20% need to develop their skills to be fast enough to do well. A lot have raced for 5+ or up to 10 years now and it shows. I know we have gained 3-4 seconds a lap over that time frame by being better drivers alone in a car that has not really changed in the last 6-7 years.

     

    I also agree that teams are basically going 9.9/10 each lap. We treat each lap to go as fast as we can. It is an 8 hour sprint race. The only real difference I see is that, for the most part, people will plan and wait that extra amount to make a safe pass, while in sprint races you just take it then, be danged to everyone else. That is the real difference.

     

    Maybe Rob would have us all go back to being crappy drivers and driving slow. I say that as being funny, but there is a lot of truth in it. This is not Chumpcar and is now Champcar, we have progressed as a series, as teams and as drivers. That is just how it is now.

    I'm not saying that we should go slower.

     

    I'm saying that it is MORE expensive (for me at least) to end up in the same place we were before.

     

    I do see your point. 

     

    Champcar is becoming more professional.  That's fine.  However, if the gap continues to increase, there will be an opening for another race series that is less professional, cheaper, and just as competitive.

     

    The rules are changing.  Perhaps it's my time to stop stressing over the changes and the increased personal costs, and just either rent seats or race somewhere else.

     

     

    To put it another way, I don't give a crap about how much faster the cars go.  I Care about how much more expensive it is (for me) to stay at the front.

     

    Stop with that nonsense about crappy drivers and what not.  It really seems like a thinly veiled accusation that we are crappy drivers.  

  12. The simple answer is that yes, it m8ght want different alignment or pressures.

     

    The reason why is: construction of the tire.

     

    There's a bunch of variables that go into building a tire.  Compound and tread pattern are the most obvious, but construction can be different enough that it will want more or less camber or pressures due to sidewall stiffness.

  13. 1 hour ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

    I think it is one of those, if you look back at all the money you spent, was it spent right. I know I can say, nope, should not have done A-Z, but that one thing helped. Live and learn.

     

    With the massive amount of fuel you have and swap hp potential you have it made.

    Sure, I have instances of not picking the right part here or there.

     

    However, the racing is not any better now that we go 10 to 15 seconds faster at tracks.

     

    The engine, trans, driveshaft, coilovers, aero, etc I bought to be at the same place sure as he'll wasn't free....

    • Like 3
  14. 25 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

    I think the idea has merit actually. Adjust points for speed adders and have reliability items at zero points. I think I would need to see a structured item list of values and points on different things to see how it would work out, but it could make sense. Though the majority would never go for it, like most things.

     

    On your car, let's make it fast again and reliable. You say you have the points. Can we start a new thread and put up the specifics of what you have and we can debate and talk about how to make it fast, reliable and be cost effective. I think we can come up with a good plan and could be there again.

     

    To me

    89 RX7

    VPI 300

    18.5 gallons- holy crap I did not realize it was so big. Go 20 gallon fuel cell, being cheap, add .5 surge tank.

    Swap calculator 221hp = 395 vpi  Ford/Mazda Duratec V6 rated at 221hp with VVT, or other similar rated. Toyota v6, but that is, though they blow up on me a lot.

    395 vpi

    40 springs

    25 headers

    10 wing

    10 splitter

    10 air dam

    10 accusump

    make it uber light

    Put some big tires on it

     

    500 points and you have enough fuel to go 2 hours and speed to beat everyone.

     

    What is your setup now.

     

    What is your setup now.

     

     

     

    I mean....  we finished on the same lap as the miata that is causing a good bit of drama (we finished in 2nd place).

     

    Reliability is just new build dramas.  (Engine mounts failing.  Exhaust failing)

     

    My point is that we spent a ton of money to basically stay on the podium.

  15. 56 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

    And you need all those items and more to do well with the old car and setup you have, it makes senes. Times have change Rob, it is not 5-10 years ago you are quoting still. 

     

    Did I hear you say free accusmp? hehe

    So, you don't like the idea I proposed? 

     

    Yeah, the 5 to 10 years is the point.  We are moving away from cheap racing that doesn't require an actual professional race team budget to be competitive.

     

    Times have changed indeed....  that is my point.

    • Like 2
  16. I'll jump in....   it's not just free items it's lower value on items.

     

    I now have a swapped trans, swapped engine, aero devices front and rear, an aluminum rad, coilovers, etc....

     

    When we started racing in champcar this car when mostly stock was 540 pts...

     

    So, yeah, there has been things that are lower value or free sometimes that are leading to increased spending and decreased laptimes

     

    The solution I like for this the best is to give all reliability items for zero points, but jack the crap out of performance items.

     

    Double engine swap points, double or triple aero stuff, etc.

     

    All the oil coolers, radiators, oil pans, accusump you want...  all free.

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