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Any veteran racer will tell you prep will get you farther LONGER than "cheating". A good chassis to start with (E30, MX5, RX7 etc) responds better to prep than something never known for great handling. I really don't doubt that there are $500.00 Miatas or E30s. I've caged a few that I wouldn't have paid $100 for- bilstein shocks or not.

The difference that I'm seeing in the paddocks and topics here is in the prep levels. Where does "prep level" start and stop? Is throwing a proper street alignment on the car allowed? What about tossing in some negative camber and adjusting the toe a little for better turn in? Is that the limit? What about slotting the strut towers with a drill bit and a body saw, marking the settings every .5 degrees so that during the 5 minute fuel stop,you can easily take 1/2 degree of camber out to save tire wear?

Is taking a piece of used drywall from your bathroom remodel and screwing it to the underside of the car to clean up the air flow and get some weight down low too much prep? If someone uses Redline or AmSoil over whats on sale at WalMart is he over prepping? Prep just takes the time, thought and patience to do and I'm pretty sure thats free and within the rules. Am I wrong?

Flame away...

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  • Race Control

Prep just takes the time, thought and patience to do and I'm pretty sure thats free and within the rules. Am I wrong?

Flame away...

You are absolutely correct. All of the items you mentioned are perfectly legal. My Camaro has the camber and toe dialed in where I want it, and if I wanted to make a belly ban for airflow, that would be ok too (I'm not going to bother).

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Yes, in my opinion there is no such thing as too much prep (as mentioned in other threads) or over prepped. Prepping takes time and in my case on our team one guy is retired, and one guy has no social life. So we spend a bunch of time on the car. Yes, our car 'looks' clean, well groomed, and fast. What do you expect from a team where racing a beater car 6-7 times a year is their only hobby? (other than fishing, but it's too damn hot to fish in Florida right now)

Prep away!!

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Guest TroubleOnWheels

Agreed. I've never stopped 'prepping' and our car is three years old. The difference comes when that prepping involves caster/camber plates, adjustable sway bars etc etc ... then you're spending, not prepping.

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Agreed. I've never stopped 'prepping' and our car is three years old. The difference comes when that prepping involves caster/camber plates, adjustable sway bars etc etc ... then you're spending, not prepping.

Ok... next step on prep levels... I can very easily take some 3/16" plate, lay out some holes, drill them OOOOOOO, slot them with a file (______) use a step drill for the hole for the shock and suddenly, I have very rough camber plates for $5.00 in material. I wouldn't expect that the man of a thousand stories to go lightly on me though ;)

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Guest TroubleOnWheels

Ok... next step on prep levels... I can very easily take some 3/16" plate, lay out some holes, drill them OOOOOOO, slot them with a file (______) use a step drill for the hole for the shock and suddenly, I have very rough camber plates for $5.00 in material. I wouldn't expect that the man of a thousand stories to go lightly on me though ;)

it would be treated like a very nice and useful piece of $5 material. I think you're starting to 'get it'. the new rules will help clarify this kind of thing quite well, I think.

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Ok... next step on prep levels... I can very easily take some 3/16" plate, lay out some holes, drill them OOOOOOO, slot them with a file (______) use a step drill for the hole for the shock and suddenly, I have very rough camber plates for $5.00 in material. I wouldn't expect that the man of a thousand stories to go lightly on me though ;)

You even get engineering bonus laps for stuff like that!

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After seeing some of the cars that have raced LeMons with massive quantities of CNC'd billet aluminum, I will just say that a $5 chunk of steel made into a camber plate with a drill and grinder is fine. A $1000 block of aluminum machined into a bell housing is not. If you can make it in your garage with normal tools, go for it. If the tools used to make your new suspension component can only be found at a high-end machine shop or professional race shop, then it has probably moved beyond prep.

I will be the first to admit that we have hundreds and hundreds of hours into our 36 year old S30, but the time was spend de-mousing it (kinda - ask Erik, LLoyd and John about the residual odor), unfracking old repairs, and rewiring the entire car so it would function. Our mods consist of cutting coils from the springs and redrilling the front crossmember to fix the S30's bumpsteer issue. We tore the engine down 100% simply to clean the components. We didn't replace the oilpump, waterpump, rings, or bearings while we had it apart because that wouldn't fit in the budget (we built the car for LeMons, so it was a cost issue, not a value issue).

My Z is dog slow, but I am proud to see the checkered flag waving from the driver's seat knowing that we took a complete piece of poop from an old barn and finished a 14 hour race with it. We will search for more power via legal methods, but if it's still slow, so be it.

As I walked around the paddock, I saw many similarly crappy cars and a few that I was sure were cheaters. I saw billet aluminum camber kits, coilovers, and other go-fast parts, but it didn't bother me. I know I brought a $500 car to a $500 car race and I went home happy.

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i would say over-preping is when you take the head off, do a PnP and mill the head, then claim "its all stock" (i just removed metal, right :rolleyes: )

or replacing every bushing in the suspension with new

or a fancy cnc adapter or such, that is free to those in the biz but very expensive for those who are not. (edit: what jeff said about cnc is right on!)

and its much worse when the car is a miata or newer bmw

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Agreed. I've never stopped 'prepping' and our car is three years old. The difference comes when that prepping involves caster/camber plates, adjustable sway bars etc etc ... then you're spending, not prepping.

Psst...keep trying Erik :lol:

remember;

"the shamwow really works!!" :lol

"naw, those tires are tied down plenty tight" :lol:

"Umm, what happened to the transponder?" :lol:

"when all else fails blame it on Leo(parid)" :lol:

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Guest Methius

Psst...keep trying Erik :lol:

remember;

"the shamwow really works!!" :lol

"naw, those tires are tied down plenty tight" :lol:

"Umm, what happened to the transponder?" :lol:

"when all else fails blame it on Leo(parid)" :lol:

All 4 of those made me laugh... but this one is still better

"do you think I can pee while we are moving?" :lol: The answer should have been "no"

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i would say over-preping is when you take the head off, do a PnP and mill the head, then claim "its all stock" (i just removed metal, right :rolleyes: ) or replacing every bushing in the suspension with newor a fancy cnc adapter or such, that is free to those in the biz but very expensive for those who are not. (edit: what jeff said about cnc is right on!)and its much worse when the car is a miata or newer bmw

I don't see a problem with new suspension bushings or a home done port and polish job-- I once tried to port my own head with hours behind a harbor freight flexible shaft grinder and a "how to" book. I made it worse!

Now the pro-shop cnc stuff is a little different, but mostly because I'm jealous I don't own a mill or a lathe (but I do have access to machine tools at the local junior college).

Chump is billed as a series for people of all backgrounds-- pros to amateurs-- to get track time and experience crapcan racing. In fact, it bills itself as real "rubbin' is racin'" racing. If some pro squad wants to come beat everyone up in the Chump sandbox, so long as they follow the rules as they are written they can kick my donkey all they want. You can't outlaw anyone's expertise or skill-- ain't gonna happen and it shouldn't happen. DIY. And if the Y happens to be Jack Roush or Caroll Shelby, so long as he's an active part of the team and he didn't have a hired engineer do the work for him, then fine.

The series and it's competitors can't wave a "look at us" banner when NASCAR pros show up and then get their butts handed to them and then cry foul when some regional SCCA team comes, stacks the deck and cleans everyone else's clock.

If you wanted to limit everyone's ability to prep, have teams ASSIGNED cars by lottery 4 weeks before a race.

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In my opinion (and thats all it is) if you make something - what ever it is - and put it on Ebay what would it sell for ??? If someone was making cool 914 parts in their garage and had $5 in metal but asking $40 ---- then it is a $40 value - If you port a $25 head and put it on ebay will someone pay $50 or $150 thats the value ------------- My Dad taught me - stuff is only worth what someone will pay !!!!!!!!!!! so fab away - but I would pay for other people fab work - at a good rate - but only for 914 parts.....

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