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Building a car and confused on the swap information

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1 minute ago, Phone said:

 

That's what I said...

 

 

I need to get my eyes checked.  Sorry 'bout that.  May have been mixing up two folks posts there...

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I deleted the thing, my first post was incorrect, the second where I explicitly say that the SC400 as-is 325 is spot on. Point is, you can't get an SC with a manual gearbox for under 400.

 

Do math, swap parts, watch your MPV go up in 2017.

Edited by Phone
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1 hour ago, morganf said:

There is a note above all of the MPV sheets:

"NOTE #1 All Automatic Transmission models - deduct 75 Points from the value listed if the car is raced with the original automatic transmission"

 

As has been noted several times, that only applies if the car had a manual option. No option, no deduction.

 

53 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Has someone with the series, like John, Phil or Mike, stated that cars that came auto only do not get the 75 point deduction?

Yes, they have. Racedad runs an Aurora that lists at 400 and takes the swap hit for a manual from there. At least that's the last I heard; they may have petitioned for an excemption or "clarification".

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"Noted several times"?  

 

And the Aurora example doesn't disagree with what we've said, if it's swapped, it starts from the base price.  Still auto, take the freebie.  Or are you saying he's still running auto and does not get the discount?

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1 minute ago, mender said:

Yes, they have. Racedad runs an Aurora that lists at 400 and takes the swap hit for a manual from there. At least that's the last I heard; they may have petitioned for an excemption or "clarification".

 

But if he left it auto would it drop to 325? That's the question.

 

He posted about it here once, but I'm not positive what he said. 

 

If auto only cars do not drop, as I stated before the values are really screwed up on some cars. 

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Just now, Gearhead_42 said:

"Noted several times"?  

 

And the Aurora example doesn't disagree with what we've said, if it's swapped, it starts from the base price.  Still auto, take the freebie.  Or are you saying he's still running auto and does not get the discount?

 

swapped to manual as the auto generates too much heat to keep cool.

 

I recall "nuclear reactor" being mentioned,

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3 minutes ago, mender said:

As has been noted several times, that only applies if the car had a manual option. No option, no deduction.

 

Yes, they have. Racedad runs an Aurora that lists at 400 and takes the swap hit for a manual from there. At least that's the last I heard; they may have petitioned for an excemption or "clarification".

Yes you would still take a swap hit from 400. Raced as auto 325, raced as 5psd 425+swap in/out ie. you will never race it as a 400 MPV

6 minutes ago, mender said:

As has been noted several times, that only applies if the car had a manual option. No option, no deduction.

Do you have a reference?

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No, no, no.

No auto discount, no auto freebie, no.

 

Raced as an auto it would be the MPV list number, which is 400 points. Swapped goes up from there.

Edited by mender

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Just now, mender said:

No, no, no.

 

Raced as an auto it would be the MPV list number, which is 400 points. Swapped goes up from there.

 frack it. going EC

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Just now, mender said:

No, no, no.

 

Raced as an auto it would be the MPV list number, which is 400 points. Swapped goes up from there.

"NOTE #1 All Automatic Transmission models - deduct 75 Points from the value listed if the car is raced with the original automatic transmission "

I don't see any exceptions listed for NOTE #1?

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1 minute ago, morganf said:

"NOTE #1 All Automatic Transmission models - deduct 75 Points from the value listed if the car is raced with the original automatic transmission "

I don't see any exceptions listed for NOTE #1?

This was discussed about two years back.

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5 minutes ago, mender said:

This was discussed about two years back.

OK, but I am talking about what is in the current RULES not something in the forums two years ago.

 

Two years ago they were still discussing whether you could manual swap an auto and start lower than MPV, I think we are all clear on this.

 

It is built in to the table that an auto only car like the SC400 goes from $325 to $425(+in-out) with a swap or as an SC300 it could go from 400 to 450(+in-out) with a V8 swap.

Edited by morganf
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26 minutes ago, morganf said:

OK, but I am talking about what is in the current RULES not something in the forums two years ago.

 

Two years ago they were still discussing whether you could manual swap an auto and start lower than MPV, I think we are all clear on this.

 

It is built in to the table that an auto only car like the SC400 goes from $325 to $425(+in-out) with a swap or as an SC300 it could go from 400 to 450(+in-out) with a V8 swap.

You should read this thread:

That way you can get the info from the team that is having to run an Aurora that only came with an auto and has to start at the listed 400 point MPV with no deduction. They ran at 400 points with the auto and took the swap charge when they finally went to manual.

 

P.S. The wording is the same as it was when this thread was active, and the "original automatic" was there to prevent people from claiming it had an automatic then got a manual swap to lower their starting MPV. Specifically, Bill Strong did that with the prior written tech approval then got slammed on the forum for "cheating". Also, rule 4.6.10 was added to address that.

Edited by mender

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Using my example from earlier, the 85 Monte being 250 with auto and 85 V8 Camaro auto being 175 shows how ludicrous that rule interpretation is. The MPV list needs a redo.

 

And the "notes" at the top of the points list should point out that auto only cars do not get the discount so those of us working on cars like that don't get blindsided by rules that don't mean what they clearly say.

 

Once again; frack it. going EC.

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17 minutes ago, mender said:

You should read this thread:

That way you can get the info from the team that is having to run an Aurora that only came with an auto and has to start at the listed 400 point MPV with no dedcution.

I don't see it but I will take your word for it, sounds like a mistake his tech person was.

 

If you protest my 325pt SC400 are you going to quote the rule http://forum.chumpcar.com/index.php?/topic/11098-setting-value-of-my-1986-crown-vic/ on the protest form?

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I've PMed Racedad and LateBreak so they can have a chance to help clarify this. I think Team Infinity also has to run at the listed MPV number for their car.

 

11 minutes ago, morganf said:

If you protest my 325pt SC400 are you going to quote the rule http://forum.chumpcar.com/index.php?/topic/11098-setting-value-of-my-1986-crown-vic/ on the protest form?

No, I would cite the Aurora MPV valuation (and the Infinity?) as the precedent for valuing an SC400 as per the MPV stated number and without a deduction.

Edited by mender

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Mender has it right, no auto deduction if no manual was offered. Aurora sits at 400 base MPV.

 

Another hair-brained chump 'solution' that I had almost forgotten about.

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Fuggit, even when the rules are clear they're not applied as written. This isn't even Bill's math we're talking about, it's straight up rewriting the rule without actually getting the rule changed.

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Which region are you running your first race? East is easttech@chumpcar.com and the other regions have similar addresses. Look under "contact us" on the chumpcar.com website.

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This swap has already been done and valued. The real issue is combining the two cars on the MPV table, which I would have thought would have been corrected by now. Anyway, this is one of those cases where you probably get screwed for asking, but I applaud your effort to do it correctly. 

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When I did this swap with our sc400 I used $400, +$25 surcharge and all the IN+OUT-THIS*THAT/(TCV) or whatever the formula is. It was 2 years ago or so but I think the general info from my log book would still pass today. Just haven't been able to race much the last couple years or at all last year. If you want more details on the actual swap PM me. I'm not on the forum much. Glen told me about this debate. 

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Per valuing the Aurora which was AT only......

 

It was clear as a bell and straight from the top: If your car did not have a manual option you could not take the 75 deduction and we were not allowed it back when we ran the original AT and tried to cool it with every trick in the book.

 

Great Granny's Aurora could not get the 75 deduct but that now a SC 400 can does not surprise me around here. Insanity.

 

Along with the random number generator apparently jacking up my MPV to $400 is why I don't "invest"  much of my time around here as I used to.........

 

Back in the AIV "don'tscrewwithuswewon'tscrewwithyoujustbringa$500car" days we started with an honest to God 500 dollar front wheel drive Chumpy car yet we got femaledog-slapped on the MPV chart and again every time they update the rules.

 

We have been consistantly saddled with laps so we go EC but the 400SX and the Wilwood Firebird party on unmolested.

 

Again,life is too short for hanging around here.

Edited by Racedad
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9 hours ago, Bandit said:

 

Once again; frack it. going EC.

 

Best decision you could ever make in this series.

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 AS CC shifts from cost to performance, The MPV table should only reflect HP, front end weight, and tank size..  

 These parameters determine lap time potential . Having enough fuel for 1:50 min runs allows the car to be podium worthy. 

 

MPV,  HP ,front weight  % , fuel tank size.  Thats it. 

Edited by flyinglizard
left out weight %.
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