tneker Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 We are considering trading out our experimentation with Wifi Lapper and Harry's lap timer for the latest Race Capture Pro system. Given we would be going with latest version available for pre-order now, previous versions may not be completely applicable, but I was wondering what folks have experiences have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xph Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Same, we want better data for our testing and were looking at RaceCapture pro for it, holding off because I didnt like that it didnt have video integration (still doesn't exactly have it, still export and use external app to merge) I am also wondering if anyone has any experience with the weather sealing requirements, as they have the new step up option, which it appears is just a bit more ruggedized. We also are running an AEM Infinity on this particular track car, so we have the AEM data logging, video logging and lap timing stuff as options, but all of those things make the RCP box look like a great value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikiel Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 It's not cheap, but you might want to look into a SmartyCam. You get video, a track map with your position plotted, g-forces, and it connects to your CAN bus so you can get brake pressure, throttle position, and a host of other things right on the video overlay. All you have to do is take the chip out of the camera and stick it into your latop or TV and the overlays are already there. It also saves all the monitored data to a file, broken down by lap number, so you can plot your teammate's laps against yours and see where you're gaining or losing time on them. I don't have one personally, but the Das Idiots team has one and it's really fascinating to go through the data when I get to drive their car. The software will even pull up a pair of laps and play the video back side by side so you can compare that way. It's amazing to watch two drivers with similar skills go around and brake, accelerate, shift, etc. almost in synchronicity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefidiot Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 It is an awesome tool and there are many more updates to come from AiM that make the SmartyCam and other tools. It isn't cheap either. However, you do need a Factory CAN network to get it to work properly, unless you want to start buying the really expensive add-ons and systems. I have read though that the SmartyCam can be operated with the RCP system (as it is open source). That would be my favored route if we hadn't already forked out for the kit we have. Essentially, the Camera system does the data overlay in real time so you can just pull the memory card and watch the video. The Datalogger (we use the Solo DL) is a timer, GPS which stores the data and also feeds the data to the camera. The RCP system has the benefit of the telemetry option using LTE, is set up to incorporate the analogue signals you may want and then, using the open source code free on the interweb to send the data over to the camera in the format it wants. The RCP also has its own software for data analysis but I haven't played with it to say how good it is or not. But from what I read and see, it is capable enough. So that would be my suggested route; RCP with Telemetry and a SmartyCam. Just for an idea, the camera is about $1000. Most of the cost is to pay for the rights to the software creating the real time overlay but its worth every penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Picasso Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) Hi, I'm co-founder of Autosport Labs, happy to answer any questions about the new RaceCapture/Pro MK3 and RaceCapture/Apex systems. We also sponsored ChumpCar / ChampTruck in 2016! Clarifying a couple of items above: * Video - all systems will be able to automatically start/stop GoPro cameras (via wifi) with a speed based trigger so you can create precisely sync'd data and video files, which makes it a snap to use with RaceRender. * The RaceCapture/Apex system is IP65 rated, and also has a more advanced GPS system that handles intermittent drops in satellite and interference, making it even more hardened/industrial grade. Not to diminish MK3's GPS which works very well. * AEM integration is well supported, as is Megasquirt and other ECUs. Would love to hear what you'd like to get out of the system - IOW, what's particularly important for you, for your racing - this feedback would be great to prioritize the features we're working on. Thanks! Edited February 1, 2017 by Brent Picasso 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xph Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 @Brent Picasso thanks for chiming in on the forums! At the end of the day (in my mind) the biggest gap is video... triggering a go pro to start and stop is a great start but its not the same as having internally clock synchronized recordings of various camera feeds; I would love to see a "wired" video connector on the product that allowed 2 or more cameras to be logged directly into the product (more like a video surveillance system).. I get that the CPU demands, and data sizes go way up but for me this would be ideal; and I think it would be the most precise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takjak2 Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 @Brent Picasso, I'm very close to purchasing a second AiM Solo (for our 2nd car) prior to our event in 4 weeks. Data logging and in-car predictive lap timing are my critical features. Other than price, why should I buy your product instead? Can the resulting data be easily converted for use in AiM's Race Studio, or visa versa? I would love to have a quick way to exfil data from the car to pits during the race. A burst-mode wifi link while passing or sitting in the pits would be a killer feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xph Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 minute ago, takjak2 said: I would love to have a quick way to exfil data from the car to pits during the race. A burst-mode wifi link while passing or sitting in the pits would be a killer feature. Hahah I almost added this to my post but thought I was the only one In the end ideally I would like to be able to connect to the data-logger over wifi during a pit stop, and pull the data without having to eject cards. I would think true burst mode as you drive by start finish would be really hard, better probably to try to do some limited bandwidth radio based packet IP implementation... A true data burst would need the ability to train, connect and transmit over a very short period very ISDN esq.. I would bet tracks will have track wide wifi soon enough for racer data, the in car video we are doing is too valuable from a marketing standpoint to rely on over saturated cellular nodes; although maybe 5g will solve this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDJones2000 Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Xph said: In the end ideally I would like to be able to connect to the data-logger over wifi during a pit stop, and pull the data without having to eject cards. I would think true burst mode as you drive by start finish would be really hard, better probably to try to do some limited bandwidth radio based packet IP implementation... A true data burst would need the ability to train, connect and transmit over a very short period very ISDN esq.. I would bet tracks will have track wide wifi soon enough for racer data, the in car video we are doing is too valuable from a marketing standpoint to rely on over saturated cellular nodes; although maybe 5g will solve this. Do you realize that this is exactly what WifiLapper does? You set up a local wifi network at the track, and every time the car goes by, it connects to a PC in your pits and sends lap time, accelerometer, speed, etc. data to the computer. We use it for every race. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Picasso Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) @Xph I hear you loud and clear! Right now, especially with the release of the new RaceCapture/Pro MK3 and RaceCapture/Apex systems we're focusing on making it amazing to collect data from whatever sensors you have - high performance GPS, high quality IMU (accelerometer / gyro), direct sensor connections (temperatures / pressures / etc) , CAN bus sensor network (tire temperature sensors, TPMS, and more) plus ECU sensor support and related sensors - and making all of that available via telemetry on the web or on mobile devices, with appealing *and* useful visuals that work on mobile devices (Android / iOS) Examples @takjak2 Great question. As endurance racers (we raced at the inaugural ChumpCar 24HR event at Portland International Raceway) we designed the RaceCapture system to work especially well for endurance racing. The obvious one is the live-streaming telemetry - monitoring your car and driver in real-time to watch for emerging mechanical situations, as well as real-time coaching for drivers using our online tools. Example for real-time coaching: See this recent live-streamed data from Sebring. Here, two laps have been selected (select different laps on the left side). Scroll down to see the time-gap analysis, which compares the time difference between the two selected laps (where one is catching up or falling behind), in addition to the speed over distance graph. These are powerful analysis tools to coach slower drivers vs your team 'ace' - and you can do it in real-time, during the race. https://podium.live/events/sebring-majors-test-day/device/rrp-16?laps[]=13&laps[]=15 We spent a tremendous amount of research looking at point-point radio technologies and other approaches such as bursted data. Point to point tech was cumbersome to set up and was prone to drops in data dealing with terrain. And, the overwhelming response from our customers was that the immediacy of live, real-time data was intoxicating and therefore a critical feature: you can see where the race car is at any time during the race. And with the latest 3.5G cellular module we're using, latencies are typically sub-second; a favorite thing for first time users is to watch the car's dot on telemetry and watch as it's going by on the front straight. In most cases the visual delay is imperceptible, and they love seeing that. A noteworthy endurance racing feature is the automatic pit stop timer. Example: The pit stop timer automatically kicks in and logs the time you were in pits, helping you better understand your pit strategy. Other things, like enhanced alerts / alarms and other features specifically to help endurance racers are all on the short list. Openness: The RaceCapture system has an open design and logs data in plain CSV, which can be imported wherever software can import this generic, common data format. Ease of use: a primary goal is to make the system 100% mobile friendly, where telemetry data can be viewed and shared on any device, easily - in the pits, or with race coaches or friends around the world, laptops and big screens welcome, but not required. Moreover, our goal is to make the system easy enough to use where you can successfully set it up without needing to refer to printed manuals or training seminars - tall order, right? We largely achieved this with the plug and play version of RaceCapture (from the kickstarter). The guided setup in the video below is what we have in the latest app, and expanding this is the direction we're going. Polish, discoverability, friendliness and ease of use matters, and we learned that lesson well from the earliest versions of the RaceCapture system. Ultimately, we're endurance racers building tech for endurance racers, and we bring wide-ranging expertise that spans hardware, software and internet platforms. Everything is manufactured and assembled in our facility near Seattle, WA. More about our team / mission / values: https://www.autosportlabs.com/about/ Thanks for your consideration and the great feedback. Edited February 2, 2017 by Brent Picasso 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Sammich Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Any chance that software could tell us when to give up on a shite car? <press GO to calculate> computer sounds and then.. *bing* "your car is rubbish, try again". 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Picasso Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Ha, no - but we do have a script to punish the driver when appropriate https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/RaceCapturePro_Lua_Scripting_Examples#Alert_driver_via_electro-shock_if_oil_pressure_below_safe_threshold 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chbright Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 likely more appropriate for the RC/Autosports Labs forum but sense you posted here....... I know it was asked on the race capture forums recently, but, I would love to be able to command the dashboard app with the scripting from the race capture HW inputs. Either use the GPIO on the unit for buttons (a waste, but quick and dirty) or use a CAN bus (or SPI) device to send commands to the unit that can change the dashboard. Taking it one step further buttons/switches could increment the current dash screens, like swiping does now, or could set the exact dash screen preset to use. I do not want the only way to change the dash be by swiping the screen. A CAN or SPI control device could be in the form of a Nucleo based STM32, Arduino, Teensy or heck the BMW idrive controller if you really want a chumpy pre-built unit (and take the effort to decode the units output which has been done). The answer to use a Bluetooth keyboard really doesn't fly with me, but i guess it is chumpy. With the CAN bus, a single board can take inputs like switches or buttons, pass off the info to RC and other devices, and then receive messages back for a host of things (rpm lights, warning lights, fans, relays for lights, whatever). adding another device in the form of the bluetooth keyboard isn't too useful. IMO, Brent, you guys are really on to something that can compete with Haltech, AEM, Racepack and AIM groups. Is it the same, no, but for most levels of motorsport your products are great and still likely overkill vs the phone based options so many people run. The interface is not where those groups are, but the ability to use the CAN bus to control the competitors dashes was a huge step in leveling the playing field. Plus the RC app is pretty good already. Would like to see the app mirror some of the functions of the dashes out there eventually, maybe a dash setup where things like temps, pressures, fuel info, warning messages, ect, automatically scroll while critical data always stays on screen (and controlled via the RC unit!) . At the current price point,all line you offer are great ways to get into the big data scene. So is the ever popular AimSolo . I think the Race capture line has a lot more to offer over the AimSolo now, and in the future. Especially the live features it boasts. AIM has the post stint analysis edge, but they have been refining that for years (decade+?). The script to convert the RC data to GEM+ makes for a compelling alternative to the AIM offering. Hope you guys develop a competitor to Racepack Smartwire system next. I intend to rig up a DIY version without the programmable circuit breakers (which are not worth the time or $ compared to a fuse ATM but what a brilliant feature). Now an Autosports Lab version with programmable circuit breakers might fit the bill given your track record with RC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xph Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 @chbright right on... for us the upside is the open source ness... the idea that we could potentially upgrade our dash to be based on custom programming from RCP... there are lots of features we would like... ability to send messages to the driver from the pits or telemetry... the ability to make custom gauges, like a temp gauge that shows the current temp and a rate of increase or decrease over time... so one glance at the temp gauge shows you what you need to know, vs having to monitor it. We arent however looking for all of these things to be built in, as long as we can roll our own. What has been holding us back is weight and confidence... ultimately we keep saying, well what if this goes down, so we need backup systems (rpm lights, temp lights ect).. and then once we have those, why do we need the heavy complicated tablet... so far this is where the box products like the AEM and AIM dashes are still perceived to be superior in my mind... To be my dash.. it has to work all the time, every-time, flawlessly and thats a lot to ask with all the software, independent operating systems, cables and connections; I cant even say my iphone alone meets this requirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Picasso Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hi All, sorry for the late reply. Been super heads down on the MK3 / Apex pre-orders and building a little bonus device we're working to officially unveil (video below). Thanks for the thoughtful feedback and support - really appreciate it. To summarize, I'm hearing: * Good: Open nature / non-proprietary / flexiblity * Good: current price point * Good: live streaming and associated capabilities * Want: video / better video support * Want: more robust dashboard - Tablet based dashboard is weakness - must be bulletproof / automatic on/off (with 12v power) * Want: enhanced alerting / alarms * Want: improved analysis This is a good list, much of this is what we know already, but it's important to re-iterate it. On the topics of alarms, we're had this idea on the backburner for a while and moved it forward, because, well.. I've been dying to play with RGB LEDs and wanting to make a CAN controlled widget. So, the original ShiftX from a couple of years back was a simple board with 3 banks of LEDs controlled by RCP's GPIO outputs. ShiftX2 turns that up to 11 - it's a CAN controlled device that controls 9 RGB LEDs - 7 sequential LEDs in the center that can act as a sequential shift light, an indicator for predictive lap time performance (+/- indicator vs best), or just visualizing a sensor reading. The flanking LEDs can be programmed as alarms indicators. Some demo videos from yesterday. Firmware will be open source for your hacking enjoyment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewheelerZ Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Cool setup Brent. Nice work. My first thought on that strip of lights is: why don't you make the warning indicators all the lights? I.e. if oil pressure drops to zero, then all the shift lights start flashing red. That would be the ultimate "stop driving you dummy!!" warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Picasso Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Cool setup Brent. Nice work. My first thought on that strip of lights is: why don't you make the warning indicators all the lights? I.e. if oil pressure drops to zero, then all the shift lights start flashing red. That would be the ultimate "stop driving you dummy!!" warning. Thank you. That' would be possible too - the CAN protocol is pretty flexible, allowing for some built-in smarts, while providing direct access to each LED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBraden Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Most of the cars in this series lack CAN (at least for now). Older OBDI/II feeds are much more prevalent... I have run the RCP (teammate brought his), and it is great data to have, but wasn't a plug and play deal for our setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Picasso Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 @CBraden Good point - the older OBDII protocol has been a source of data we didn't have for quite a while - we finally got that solved with the Legacy OBDII Adapter we launched with the Kickstarter - this device translates the older OBDII protocol into CAN/OBDII - makes the ECU appear like a modern ECU (albiet not necessarily with the speed of a modern ECU). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Picasso Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Wow, this took a bit of time to record, but it turned out fairly well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBraden Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Brent - the LED lights look very useful... to clarify, can OBDII cars use them with the adapter you mentioned above (for any PIDs that work via that channel)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Picasso Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Hi @CBraden thanks! Yes, you'll be able to control this via OBDII PID responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators E. Tyler Pedersen Posted February 24, 2017 Administrators Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 @Brent Picasso will your RCP work with MegaSquirt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chbright Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 https://forum.autosportlabs.com/index.php https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/RaceCapturePro not to divert folks from this thread to another forum, but a lot of good info can be found with the RCP wiki and forums. love the shift lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Picasso Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 @Crank Yankers Racing We've supported MS for a long time - existing integration here: https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/RCP_CAN And we'll soon be switching over to a full user interface with easily selectable presets. Demo and details in this video: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.