theblue Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) so let's say I'm building an E36 sedan for this come year. I want the car to look cool and bring sponsors, but I don't want to take any points. a nice wing really sells a racecar. so... is LTW free? e36 m3 wing (was an option on non m cars stock how about the above with cheap ebay risers? I doubt any of this will make a difference on our laptimes, we just want to look cool at car shows with our chumpcar. thoughts? Edited February 5, 2017 by theblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 You are being way too conservative, I wouldn't even think you should pay 10 points for a factory optional part. You will be seeing some serious aero with the new rules. https://goo.gl/images/ZG2UbB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblue Posted February 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 well, those guys are paying in points and getting a LOT for it. I would just really like to run a LTW wing for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 My view is that it is ten points. Or whatever The aero device points are. The rules don't or should not care why you want the aero device. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators E. Tyler Pedersen Posted February 6, 2017 Administrators Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 10 points for a wing. Build or buy your wing. 10 points. Don't ask questions. Edited February 6, 2017 by Crank Yankers Racing I was right the first time....don't judge me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted February 6, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Stock wing should be free, as in the stock Pontiac firebird wing optional wing, as in the e36m3 wing on a e36 should be 10pts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 I am seriously reconsidering if I am getting my 10 points worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators E. Tyler Pedersen Posted February 6, 2017 Administrators Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 10 minutes ago, mhr650 said: I am seriously reconsidering if I am getting my 10 points worth... Have you done a day of testing with it to see if it is worth the 10 points? To consider if something is worth the points I would test it and see what it does to lap times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 12 minutes ago, mhr650 said: I am seriously reconsidering if I am getting my 10 points worth... Not 10 points. I messaged Phil and spoilers are valued at material points rate. Probably because the potential for performance improvement due to wing is much higher than for a spoiler. Happy because my spoiler will remain at 4points 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 A wing is a wing . The rule does not differentiate between stock and aftermarket. No mention of size or location . It is not pro rated. If you have a wing, it is 10 pts. Any of the stock M3 wings are 10 pts. No matter where or how you mount it. IMHO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_e Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 2 hours ago, mhr650 said: I am seriously reconsidering if I am getting my 10 points worth... If I remember correctly (likely not) the factory rear wing reduced rear end lift by 40 or 60% or something like that. If your car is stable at speed then you don't need it and it is likely just costing you time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) Grump Jenkins took off the Z28 spoiler, +2mph . FWIW, If you cut slots along the bottom of the RX7 spoiler,it is now a wing. Edited February 6, 2017 by flyinglizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, flyinglizard said: A wing is a wing . The rule does not differentiate between stock and aftermarket. No mention of size or location . It is not pro rated. If you have a wing, it is 10 pts. Any of the stock M3 wings are 10 pts. No matter where or how you mount it. IMHO. Don't forget what section we're dealing with here: Quote 4.3. FIXED POINT VALUE 4.3.1. Non-stock Component Values: ChumpCar has assigned a FIXED POINT VALUE that will be applied to MOST non-stock and/or performance components. 4.3.2. Fixed Point Value List ..... wings/splitters (carbon fiber not allowed): 10 pts/ea If it's a factory option part, it is not a non-stock component so it isn't governed by the part later on which says that wings are 10 points. I don't know what parts were options on e36 m3s or e36 325s or 318s so I can't comment specifically on the 2nd half of what you were saying, but you are wrong with the first few sentences. Edited February 6, 2017 by enginerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 What non M3 has a wing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, flyinglizard said: What non M3 has a wing? Neon SRT-4 has something which resembles a wing. I'm sure there are several cars on the list which do. Again, wasn't specifically talking BMWs. [edit] 2nd gen MR2 has a gray-area spoiler/wing which would be 0 points because it's OE. Edited February 6, 2017 by enginerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted February 6, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, flyinglizard said: A wing is a wing . The rule does not differentiate between stock and aftermarket. No mention of size or location . It is not pro rated. If you have a wing, it is 10 pts. Any of the stock M3 wings are 10 pts. No matter where or how you mount it. IMHO. Unless it's on a M3. Then it's included in the MPV. if it's a m3 wing on a non-m 325 or 328, 10 pts like you say. Edited February 6, 2017 by Huggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 M3 on the list for Chump? WTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblue Posted February 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, flyinglizard said: What non M3 has a wing? back in the 90s if you walked into a BMW dealer and purchased a base 325 you could order with a few wings as dealer installed option Edited February 6, 2017 by theblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miatainium Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 53 minutes ago, flyinglizard said: M3 on the list for Chump? WTF To which list are you referring? The VPI Post List specifically states "Note #3 - All models must be standard factory offerrings. Special, custom or limited editions are not included in this VPI table." M3 is not a standard factory offering and would be subject to additional points. Correct? BCCR seems pretty clear to me "wings/splitters (carbon fiber not allowed): 10 pts/ea" ... have a wing or a splitter take 10 points, don't have a wing or splitter no points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, theblue said: back in the 90s if you walked into a BMW dealer and purchased a base 325 you could order with a few wings as dealer installed option I believe all e36s (318/323/325/328/M3) could get rear wings as dealer installed options. With the exception of the Lightweight (LTW) wing (the white one) in the original post all they will do is add weight and drag. The LTW wing may give some downforce but not as much as a properly built modern wing. I also don't believe the LTW wing was available from the dealer except on the LTW. If you want to impress your sponsors, don't add stuff to the car that will slow you down, instead finish higher up the running order. Edited February 6, 2017 by skierman64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBgotM Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 32 minutes ago, theblue said: back in the 90s if you walked into a BMW dealer and purchased a base 325 you could order with a few wings as dealer installed option Let's not get into what a privately owned dealer might slap on your car for you. If it is not factory supported, then it is not from the OEM in my opinion. Even things like country homologation parts are done before sending the car to the dealers (usually a depot at the ports). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 12 minutes ago, JBgotM said: Let's not get into what a privately owned dealer might slap on your car for you. If it is not factory supported, then it is not from the OEM in my opinion. Even things like country homologation parts are done before sending the car to the dealers (usually a depot at the ports). It is a factory BMW part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, skierman64 said: It is a factory BMW part. It is, but wrong model. Edited February 6, 2017 by Team Infiniti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said: It is, but wrong model. It wasn't standard on any particular model. A related question, can a 325 e36 run the factory M3 front splitter for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, skierman64 said: It wasn't standard on any particular model. A related question, can a 325 e36 run the factory M3 front splitter for free? Not standard on an M3? As for the front splitter question, personally not gonna give a positive answer for a non m3 unless points are attached to it Edited February 6, 2017 by Team Infiniti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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