Black Magic Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 I am contemplating shortening wheelbase by cutting up my next car build. Having clipped a neon before to replace a smashed nose i think the process is less scary and involved than people think (when building a new car anyway). I would cut 14" between the front and rear seatwheels. I would also "bob" the rear to shorten the overhang. Think neon turned crx. Substantial performance reasons to do this (weigh and front %). So far nothing in the rules or intial tech conversations seems to be stopping me, but my main concerns are: -Will this be banned right away, leaving me an odd job car to toss out -Will everyone complain about it not being a neon, and thus force a change in mpv? -do other series where i might race a chumper have any limits on wheelbase mods? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Team has discussed the same, consensus is keep 60% of the body and let em cry 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Looks like the cut would make it illegal in aer, bit most likely ok in citrus racing. Not sure on other series.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted February 8, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Looks like the cut would make it illegal in aer, bit most likely ok in citrus racing. Not sure on other series.... As long as it is done safely I would think it is good in WRL. As for chump, I agree with Infinity. Keep 60% of the body, and it is just based on materials used to value it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewheelerZ Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Wouldn't that make the front/rear balance worse? Or am I visualizing it wrong? not sure why it would get banned. I wouldn't complain. Wasn't there a shortened crown Vic that used to race in chump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators E. Tyler Pedersen Posted February 8, 2017 Administrators Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 I really debated on cutting the top down on the e30 by 3" and shortening up the back window. I read in the rules stock windshield in the stock location. I don't want to go to lexan in the front. That's the only rule that I saw that would possible not let me do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Have fun! There's a lemons crown vic which had some of the midsection removed... looked awesome! Keep it above 60% and I wouldn't have any issue with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Shortening the wheelbase would effectively move the cg back in the car. Audi did this in the 80s on rally cars. Cutting also always reduces weight... Another primary factor..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Moves foreward . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Moves foreward . Negative. Imagine if the cg is behind the front axle 40 inches, and ahead of the rear axle 60 (100 inch wheelbase). If you simply move the rear axle foward 20" the cg is then 40 inches to the front axle, and 40 to the rear. Think of it the opposite way, if i added 1 mile of wheelbase (with no metal) all of the car weight would be on the front axle. In reality since you cut stuff out segmenting the middle of the car will not reduce noseweight as effectivly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Sounds cool. Also seems to open huge can o worms. I always thought the shortened crown Vic should have been EC. At what point does a car stop being what it started out being. Wheel base, to me, is pretty essential to the cars roots if you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 You can gain some rear tire weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Negative. Imagine if the cg is behind the front axle 40 inches, and ahead of the rear axle 60 (100 inch wheelbase). If you simply move the rear axle foward 20" the cg is then 40 inches to the front axle, and 40 to the rear. Think of it the opposite way, if i added 1 mile of wheelbase (with no metal) all of the car weight would be on the front axle. In reality since you cut stuff out segmenting the middle of the car will not reduce noseweight as effectivly. So it moves foreward but also closer to the rear axle which moves more foreward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBgotM Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Have fun! There's a lemons crown vic which had some of the midsection removed... looked awesome! Keep it above 60% and I wouldn't have any issue with it. I've run nose to tail with that car before. It is quick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewheelerZ Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 So it moves foreward but also closer to the rear axle which moves more forwarder. This is correct as far as I see it. Instead of thinking about moving it a mile back, think of moving the front and rear axles so that the tires are almost touching. The CG is no longer 40" from the front axle. Can anyone say "stoppie"?! Rear tire and brake wear would be basically non-existent! Don't get me wrong, I think it would be a cool experiment. I myself though would be pretty scared of unintended consequences though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnmel Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Moss Racing - 2007 Crown Vic - Shortened 19" - Runs both Chumpcar and WRL with no issues - tech in both looked it over very closely to make sure it is safe and they have had no problems 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Very cool. Basically what i was thinking. I am building to the crx cg and dimensions, but using the neon foundation, mpv, fuel, etc. Both are good handling fwd cars, but i think the lower noseweight and lighter body of the crx was part of its larger sucess. Time to plot it out on the old wrecked shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnmel Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 One thing to note is the Vic is a full framed car - not sure what issues the unibody would create? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Sammich Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) One thing to note is the Vic is a full framed car - not sure what issues the unibody would create? I suppose it depend on the quality of the work and who's attempting it. Edited February 9, 2017 by Ham Sammich spelling 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdave Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Are you starting with a long wheel base or making a short wheelbase car? Wheelbase has a big effect on stability. What is your goal wheelbase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopar 4 Life Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 I have seen this done on a circle track neon. But it was two cuts. They took a coupe and shortened it where the driver would normally sit. He now sits kind of in the porthole window in the rear. They also shortened the trunk area too. It had a 3-4" deck lid now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 As usual, mopar 4 life is one step ahead of me. You are a really good resource. What you describe is exactly what i had planned. Crappy photoshop work attached. Thank god it is fwd, making this pretty easy to pull off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopar 4 Life Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 I think why the circle tracker did it was because his dirt track was smaller than normal? He was always in rotation. Sunfires and cavaliers did the same modifications too. I don't remember the name of the track. But more than one racer did that mod. For a tight track it might be fun. For WGI it would scare the crap out of me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Anyone have alot of crx experience? Twitichy at high speed or ok? The little bit i remember they seem awesome in road race trim. Crx 88 to 90" wheel base, 144" length and 60 ish noseweight. Neon is 104, 171 and mid 60s. Cutting it 14" in the middle and 20 ish in the trunk i could get 90, 140 and lower noseweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 crx also has magical A-arm suspension doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.