Black Magic Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Working on my next car build, to replace the broken body shell and heavy, molested bolt in cage the neon had. I am thinking of using 1.5 x .095 wall tubing since at the neon weight scca, chump, wrl and aer allow it. Lemons forces 1.75 x .095. I dont think my neon build lines up with lemons well, nor do i really like their format anyway. I have buddies with lemons cars i can use if i wanna go slow and get a pile of black flags.... Is it niave to build it to 1.5 x .095? What do most of you guys do? Any other concerns building to this size? Is lemons my only concern? Talk me into or out of it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted February 9, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 I did 1.75" on the last cage I welded up and I took my time on the attachment points. I like the safest cage possible. Its really up to you though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi_Im_Will Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Our cage is 1.75 x 0.125. We thought about the weight, then we thought about how a driver's license and a pulse are the only requirements to drive in ChumpCar. Also did double NASCAR bars. Would have done a full FIA rally cage if the rules didn't penalize for it. Don't screw around on the safety stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_e Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 We went bigger diameter and heavier wall than required as well. We all have day jobs that require our brains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 The Premium Dudes car is the one pictured in Red0's post. As others have echo'd, the car is below 2500 lbs, but we went a step above min. to 1.75" for peace of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 We're satisfied with our 1.5" cage. But we've never tested it either. It meets all the min requirements for every series we've run, CCWS, WRL, SCCA and NASA. There must be a reason that it meets the requirements. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 1.75x.095 here @ 2500lbs because it was a step over minimum. Same reasons as others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cagedruss Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 The list below is tube size od an id. Strength and weight per linear foot. It is one thing to use 1.5 tube if all the cars are of equal size and weight and another when running a series that has a vast variety as Chump. Between speed and size differential using the lighter smaller tube to save a few pounds doesn't really make sense, Not a fan either of building to the minimum spec either even if it is allowed, 1.75 0.095 1.56 0.49 34,575 1.596 lb1.50 0.120 1.26 0.52 36,416 1.769 lb1.50 0.095 1.31 0.42 29,352 1.426 lb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdave Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 In our very light car we still used 1.75x.095 due to the amount of movement in the last 1.5x.095 cage I saw that was used. Likely ~13 lbs is all the more it will weigh. There are other orgs that do not like 1.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastZ06 Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 +1 for 1.75x.095" Just b/c. I bet I have 40-50lbs extra in my bolt in cage, turned 8+ point with 16+ attachments to the unibody. 1.75 is a lot stronger/stiffer, you know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 I like 1.50 x 120 DOM .Fits up to 3000# for SCCA and most others. Plus it bends well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Ray Franck Posted February 10, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 I just bought 1.50x 120 dom for our small car build .. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted February 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Another big factor i found out today. At my local steel supplier (to much of the nascar world as well). 1.5 x .095 dom $5.23 a foot 1.75 x .095 true seamless cold drawn tube.... $2.85 a foot. About 20 lbs heavier to do a cage, but about half the price. I had no idea. Those prices for 1.5 .095 seem about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 2.85/ft? Where did you go? Can I pitch in for a stick?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 What is the true seamless . How is it different then DOM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted February 10, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 What is the true seamless . How is it different then DOM? ERW (Electric Resistance Welded) The nomenclature ERW refers to a specific type of welding process that involves both spot and seam welding. Seam welding is commonly used during the manufacturing of round, square and rectangular steel tubing. The steel strip is unwound from coils and side-trimmed to control width and condition the edges for welding. The strip then passes through a series of contoured rollers which cold-form the material into a circular (square or rectangular) shape. The edges are forced together under pressure as a butt joint and then welded by heating the material to temperatures above 2000° F. The flash weld that has formed is now removed from the outside diameter of the tube. Once the weld has been tested the tube then passes through a series of sizing rolls to attain its precise finished size, after which the tube is then straightened and cut to length. The material used in the manufacturing process is typically SAE 1010. This product is typically available in Cold Rolled steel (CREW) for 0.060” wall and lighter and Hot Rolled steel (HREW) for 0.083” wall and heavier. The product will come in an “as-welded” condition, (often called – flash-in condition) referring to when the flash from the weld is left on the inside of the tubing, it is not normally removed or controlled during the ERW tube production process. (DOM) Drawn Over Mandrel Technically, DOM is not a type of steel tube, but rather the process in which the tube is finished. It is considered a high quality tube, and is normally constructed from SAE 1020 or 1026 steel. The first stages of manufacturing are identical to ones used to make electric resistance welded tube, but in the finishing stages the entire flash weld is removed and the tube is cold drawn over a mandrel. The cold drawn process provides the tube with better dimensional tolerances, improved surface finish and the strongest weld strength achievable. DOM is often incorrectly referenced as “seamless tube” when it actually does have a seam (although it is almost invisible). Seamless Mechanical Tubing The seamless tube is manufactured using a process called “extrusion”. During this process a solid steel bar is pierced though the centre using a die, turning the solid round into a round tube. Basically there are two types of seamless tube: Cold Drawn Seamless (CDS) normally made from SAE 1018, having precise tolerances and good surface finish Hot Finished Seamless (HFS) normally made from SAE 1026, having less critical tolerances and a scaly finish – Not as strong as CDS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted February 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 2.85/ft? Where did you go? Can I pitch in for a stick?? Stock car steel, here in the charlotte area. Per the info above it is cds which i would argue is much better than dom. http://www.stockcarsteel.com/cold-drawn-seamless-cds-tube-1018/1018-cold-drawn-seamless-cds-tube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 I figured it was either Stock car or Race city. Wish it was RCS since I'm like 5 miles from them, but they don't show CDS on their site. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted February 10, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 I wish raleigh had the local steel suppliers like Greensboro and Charlotte do... I used 1.75x.120 for mine. I will use 1.75x.095 for the next one. I'd skip the 1.5 stuff. The weight penalty is minimal and the 1.75 is MUCH MUCH stronger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastZ06 Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 If you know your metal supplier and buy a decent amount 10+ sticks or 250+ ft, you can get a decent deal, half the price or typical retail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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