How wide on tires can I go ?

[DRVOLKS]

I have been plan on changing up the Beetle a bit Looking for how wide of a tire can I run and what tire is a good tire to test?.

My bolt pattern is 5 X 100 witch limits us to rims and a 30mm offset? so it limits us to a 8 inch rim.

I have been looking in to re drilling the hub to 5 X 114.3  so we have more of a selection of rims. I would like to go to a 9- 9.5 inch wide and a zero off set for a better scrub radish.

Any thoughts on it and if you have any rims that would work.

Bob Mann

www.DRVOLKS.com

bobtec@comcast.net

  

[E. Tyler Pedersen]

You should be able to run this to make sure you can go to a wider selection:  https://www.amazon.com/5x114-3-Adapters-CHANGES-PATTERN-Chrysler/dp/B00AA46L2C  I am not sure what your center bore is but you can just search for adapters like these.  I know H&R has a lot of adapters you can run.  I am not a big fan of running large spacers because of the possible extra stress it puts on the hub and other components.  I would run up to a 10mm spacer but nothing more than that.  Also what size of wheel are you looking at going to?  I know Subaru has a lot of 16" to 17" wheels available. 

[CoachMK21]

On our Volvo, we run these 5x114.3 adapter because the Volvo is a really odd bolt patter, 5x108 I think.  We only run 2-3 events a year with it, but haven't had any hub issues.  But I can understand the concern when dealing with big spacers.

[Hi_Im_Will]

Assuming you can fit a 25" OD tire, this will go real fast

 

17x9.75:

 

25mm spacer:

 

 

255/40R17 RE71R:

 

http://www.nlmotoring.com/XXR-527-Wheels-17x9-75-Chromium-Black-p/52779542n.htm

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-42-draft-designs-parts/42-draft-designs-wheel-spacers-25mm-1-pair/5084437~42d/?gclid=CjwKEAiA_9nFBRCsurz7y_Px8xoSJAAUqvKCwh1lq1YvpH1ayBBVCBcgutfSzL-JWrmvZnbJOp9kmxoCAYDw_wcB

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE-71R&partnum=54WR7RE71RXL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

[enginerd]

5 hours ago, DRVOLKS said:

Looking for how wide of a tire can I run and what tire is a good tire to test?

Just keep 'em inside the fenders, plz

[Hi_Im_Will]

29 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Just keep 'em inside the fenders, plz

 

Or adjust the fenders to match the wheels

[LAMR2]

I'm just wondering what cleaning root vegetables has to do with tires.

[mcoppola]

4 hours ago, LAMR2 said:

I'm just wondering what cleaning root vegetables has to do with tires.

After I went "Huh?", and "WTF?", I had to go back and reread this thread to understand...

In the words of Glinda  "Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?"

Edited March 2, 2017 by mcoppola

[mcoppola]

8 hours ago, enginerd said:

Just keep 'em inside the fenders, plz

Next thing you know, they will be putting fenders on Indycars!

Wait, what? Too late...

(I'd put a picture here for emphasis, but linky brokey... for me and @Hi_Im_Will at least...)

[jkrueger]

13 hours ago, CoachMK21 said:

On our Volvo, we run these 5x114.3 adapter because the Volvo is a really odd bolt patter, 5x108 I think.  We only run 2-3 events a year with it, but haven't had any hub issues.  But I can understand the concern when dealing with big spacers.

 

Actually we do have hub issues, though they might not be caused by our spacers entirely.  We have a fair bit of hub flex that is causing pad knock back in our fixed front calipers.  It is probably a combination of a stock hub that is meant for street driving, wheel spacers, and wide tires.

 

JC

[Ron_e]

We run 275/40/17 on 9" rims, seems to work for our wallowing Mustang. 

[DRVOLKS]

7 hours ago, Ron_e said:

We run 275/40/17 on 9" rims, seems to work for our wallowing Mustang. 

 

Thank you all, that is kind of where I was going with this post . I did order the adapters for testing that crank yankers racing showed  for testing.

My plan is to pulls the fenders off a spare Beetle we have out back and splice then to the ones that are on there now to give us the coverage.

Bob Mann

www.DRVOLKS.com

bobtec@comcast.net

 

 

[tneker]

We are adding wider wheels and tires and plan to roll the fenders out to accommodate.  If we can't get the fenders out as much as would like, what other  "value" free options do we have to cover them?  Just interested in keeping exposed tires from being a contact hazard with other cars.  

[mender]

We've found 275s to be a bit squirmy on 9" , 255s are more precise which is what we need the rear of a Fiero to be.

[mcoppola]

9 hours ago, Ron_e said:

We run 275/40/17 on 9" rims, seems to work for our wallowing Mustang. 

@Ron_e , are you still running 4 bolt wheels/hubs? Or did you switch to 5 bolt?

I'm looking for 17"x 9+" wheels in the 4 x 108mm (4.25") bolt pattern.

Edited March 2, 2017 by mcoppola

[mender]

[Hi_Im_Will]

29 minutes ago, mender said:

We've found 275s to be a bit squirmy on 9" , 255s are more precise which is what we need the rear of a Fiero to be.

 

Most tires like a bit of stretch, makes them much easier to drive at the limit.  When the tire is stretched slightly, there is much less room for the tread to move around relative to the rim, making the sidewall feel stiffer, without the bumpiness you get from actually using a stiffer sidewall.  The recommend rim from the mfg is chosen for load carrying capacity, not grip, so you can often go quite a bit wider with the wheel.  For chump-sized tires, we've found that about a quarter inch of stretch per inch of sidewall height is about ideal.  Use the tread width (not section width) from mfg to determine:

 

205/50R15 Direzza ZII*

Tread width:  7.2"

OD:  23.1"

Sidewall height = (OD-ID)/2 = (23.1-15)/2 = 4.05

Stretch = sidewall height / 4 = 1.01"

Ideal rim = tread width + stretch = 8.2"

So a 205/50R15 ZII* likes a 8" rim

 

255/40R17 RE71R

Tread width:  8.9"

OD:  25"

Sidewall height = (OD-ID)/2 = (25-17)/2 = 4.00

Stretch = sidewall height / 4 = 1.0"

Ideal rim = tread width + stretch = 9.9"

So a 255/40R17 RE71R likes a 9.75" or 10" rim

 

245/40R15 Hankook RS4

Tread width: 9.1"

OD:  22.5"

Sidewall height = (OD-ID)/2 = (22.5-15)/2 = 3.75

Stretch = sidewall height / 4 = 0.93"

Ideal rim = tread width + stretch = 10.03"

So a 245/40R15 RS4 likes a 10" rim

 

And for @mender's case:

Falken Azenis RT615k 275/40R17 (informed guess on which tire)

Tread width:  9.7"

OD:  25.6"

Sidewall height = (OD-ID)/2 = (25.6-17)/2 = 4.30

Stretch = sidewall height / 4 = 1.08"

Ideal rim = tread width + stretch = 10.78"

That tire would be happiest on at least a 10.5" rim.  No surprise it's squirmy on a 9.

 

Of course, if you're limited by the rims you can find, the only way to get more grip is by going to a wider tire, but you will be giving up driveability to do it. 

[Andrew D Johnson]

You can get Rivals up to 335mm at tire rack. If everyone likes big tires, just go the biggest and be done with it. 

[Hi_Im_Will]

15 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

@Ron_e , are you still running 4 bolt wheels/hubs? Or did you switch to 5 bolt?

I'm looking for 17"x 9+" wheels in the 4 x 108mm (4.25") bolt pattern.

 

I'm going to keep pushing the XXR 527 because I'm in love with it's cheapness, lightness, and availability in 17x9.75 in 4 bolt patterns.  No 4x108, but you're likely to need a spacer anyway, so I would run them with an adapter. 4x100/114.3 or 5x100/114.3...take your pick.

 

http://www.nlmotoring.com/XXR-527-Wheels-s/1649.htm?searching=Y&sort=5&cat=1649&f-17 inch wheels=613&show=200&page=1&f-9.75=1668

[Hi_Im_Will]

Just now, red0 said:

You can get Rivals up to 335mm at tire rack. If everyone likes big tires, just go the biggest and be done with it. 

 

 

Yeah, but I'd have a hard time arguing for any 18x12 rim being within the 2x rule for an E30... or paying $366/tire

[mender]

Close; we started with the 255/40/17 Rivals on 9", felt good and pretty easy to drive, then tried the Toyo R1Rs in the 275 size after and the car moved a bunch move. Made it more fun to drive but had to be ahead of the car, and I don't think we went much quicker as a result. I'm of the big tire-bigger rim school myself, so wasn't surprised.

 

You've got me looking at the XXR 927s, it's about time to update our old and heavy but cheap Advan AV5s.

Edited March 2, 2017 by mender

[mcoppola]

26 minutes ago, mender said:

Looks like 5 bolts in front and 4 in the back????

Is that true? (With the same wheels nonetheless...)

Edited March 2, 2017 by mcoppola

[mcoppola]

29 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

 

I'm going to keep pushing the XXR 527 because I'm in love with it's cheapness, lightness, and availability in 17x9.75 in 4 bolt patterns.  No 4x108, but you're likely to need a spacer anyway, so I would run them with an adapter. 4x100/114.3 or 5x100/114.3...take your pick.

 

http://www.nlmotoring.com/XXR-527-Wheels-s/1649.htm?searching=Y&sort=5&cat=1649&f-17 inch wheels=613&show=200&page=1&f-9.75=1668

So @Hi_Im_Will, did you go away from the steelies?

I detest spacers for 2 reasons:

1) The Focus already has an inherent problem with weak hubs. I've alleviated that issue with aftermarket hubs I had made.

2) I don't like what the spacers do for scrub radius.

One of the positive things on the Focus is the zero scrub front end geometry, which makes for precise turn in characteristics.

The knuckle/strut is designed so that we can run 6.125" of backspacing. That equates to a +49mm offset on stock width (7") wheels, and +25mm on a 9" wheel. (We currently run 225/45/17's on 7.5" wide wheels, +42mm offset, 6.08" BS)

I know of someone running 15" x 10"s with 275/35/15 tires - but I'd like to stay with the 17"s due to the limited wide tire choices in 15" or 16", and ability of the wheels to clear big stock rotors (11.8") and calipers.

(I ran into all the same issues years ago when building a SCCA GT3 chassis, where we are limited to 15" x 7" wheels fitting over 12" rotors. I also designed a zero scrub radius front end geometry for that car...)

 

(Note: I HAVE found 17"x9" Rota's with +18mm offset, but ideal would be +25mm)

Edited March 2, 2017 by mcoppola

[Hi_Im_Will]

2 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

So @Hi_Im_Will, did you go away from the steelies?

I detest spacers for 2 reasons:

1) The Focus already has an inherent problem with weak hubs. I've alleviated that issue with aftermarket hubs I had made.

2) I don't like what the spacers do for scrub radius.

One of the positive things on the Focus is the zero scrub front end geometry, which makes for precise turn in characteristics.

The knuckle/strut is designed so that we can run 6.125" of backspacing. That equates to a +49mm offset on stock width (7") wheels, and +25mm on a 9" wheel. (We currently run 225/45/17's on 7.5" wide wheels, +42mm offset, 6.08" BS)

I know of someone running 15" x 10"s with 275/35/15 tires - but I'd like to stay with the 17"s due to the limited wide tire choices in 15" or 16", and ability of the wheels to clear big stock rotors (11.8") and calipers.

(I ran into all the same issues years ago when building a SCCA GT3 chassis, where we are limited to 15" x 7" wheels fitting over 12" rotors. I also designed a zero scrub radius front end geometry for that car...)

 

 

No, I'm still on steelies.  The XXR was the leading option for bigger tires before the maxxis 245/40R15 was announced.  A 255/40R17 raises the ride height of the E30 - It was impossible to keep ride height where it was and have any more than .5" of jounce travel.  Preferred to keep the ride height than take the extra little bit of width.

 

6.125" is a ton of backspacing - I'm jealous.  With that much, there's a lot more wheel options - I found the XXR because it was the smallest offset we could find - the E30 only allows 5" BS. 

 

If you can fit a 15, steelies are a good option, since you can have whatever width and backspacing you want.  Extending the track width is good for grip, but if you're already having hub issues, keep those wheels tucked in tight.  You also reduce the tire diameter over the 17s, which helps keep the car low while keeping the suspension closer to its design position.  Now that there's 3 different options for 245/40R15, it's really become an attractive option for a lot of cars. 

[Ron_e]

53 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

Looks like 5 bolts in front and 4 in the back????

Is that true? (With the same wheels nonetheless...)

 

Yes sir.  5 in the front and 4 in the back.  That was the inconvenience price we paid to save 25 points for not swapping the rear axle.  Cobra brakes on the front and TBird in the rear for discs all around.  

 

Much easier to put 5 bolt with Aerostar/Ranger axles in back with SN rear discs but I couldn't afford the points hit under previous rules.  I could have complained endlessly on the forum but didn't feel that was a battle worth fighting as it would really only benefit a few cars.