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Buttonwillow 24?


Ian Moone
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The schedule is the schedule.Once it's out and in print it SHOULD not change. Vegas and now maybe this event?

 

My understanding is BW dates are hard to come by. Take what you can get when you can get it.

Edited by Ian Moone
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57 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

Who is running the West?  Social media seems to indicate there is a change taking place. 

 

???? What social media?   Don't be afraid to share the knowledge.  

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tick tock tick tock tick tock.....

Not looking good out west. Sad to say.

Pacific - gone

Sears Point - Way under-attended.

Las Vegas - threatened

Buttonwillow - off schedule (The Buttonwillow race was on the schedule then wasn't last year as well. Closest track to our team so sort of a bummer.)

PNW - abandoned.

Another series making in roads. (60 cars at their Buttonwillow 24 in a couple of weeks.)

Not enough support for T-Hill, Fontana gone, Willow gone etc.

Another West Coast director looks to be cutting out.

 

Reasons? Afore-mentioned series? Lots of leftover bad feelings from former Chief chump? Races getting moved, bumped, disappeared, changed mid-season after people have made plans? Timing & scoring issue after timing & scoring issue for most of the season a couple of years ago? The fact some people tried to bring up real concerns about the West to either be dismissed, told they were wrong or fed excuses? I'm sort of a non-confrontational dude and I also don't like to criticize. Live and let live is a good motto. But I am afraid the "live" part of Chumpcar West is about be in question. And some of these things I have brought up here are things I have observed in conversations here on the forum, heard in person from former Chump regulars and heard from teams I am directly involved with. I don't know if it is too late. It would be a shame for ChumpCar West to only be a race or two at Laguna Seca. I feel like it is very near a tipping point or maybe even past a point of no return. But it seems like people smarter than me better mobilize if you want there to be a ChumpCar West.

 

Or, and I don't mean this facetiously, maybe there is already a plan in motion and we just don't see it yet. Hope so.

 

 

 

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I really feel that Bill has tried everything he can to keep Chumpcar West relevant.  Heck, CC West wouldn't exist if it weren't for Bill and Sandi and their family, who basically have been running the entire region on their own.

 

I also think that there is now so much baggage related to CCWS out here that I am not sure what can be done.

 

Put on an event at a bucket list track (Sonoma) and it is only middling attendance?

 

I have tried LDRL and CCWS, and I still enjoy CC better, as I don't feel that I am in an HPDE session like I do with LD.

 

I sure hope that things can be changed, but also not sure what else can be done, other than change the name of the organization out here.

 

Also, some people don't use the Book of the Faces, so that's not the best way to be communicating things.

Edited by KDJones2000
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I don't have a Facebook account so I don't know what was said, curious though. It would be sad for sure to not see Bill and Sandi, they have been awesome.

 

2 hours ago, Wendell34 said:

 I feel like it is very near a tipping point or maybe even past a point of no return.

 

I think 2016 was the tipping point.  All three series (ChumpCar, LDRL, ChumpCar Canada) scheduled races, some in direct conflict with each other.  The races were held come hell, high water, or low attendance and the chips fell to one series for multiple tracks and to one track for the other series.  The racers voted with their entries, can't blame ChumpCar for pulling back, it is a business that must make money to survive.

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Social media sucks (as I've said a million times.) Just searched Bill's FB account, using my wife's FB account, and saw no mention about Bill leaving Chumpcar. But as I said, FB sucks, as there is no chronological order to it that I've ever been able to find, let alone organized discussion topics - just a bunch of mindless dribble most of the time...

Please don't go starting unsubstantiated rumors. Maybe some of you took the bait from a recent post about forum drama being quiet....

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7 hours ago, mcoppola said:

Social media sucks (as I've said a million times.) Just searched Bill's FB account, using my wife's FB account, and saw no mention about Bill leaving Chumpcar. But as I said, FB sucks, as there is no chronological order to it that I've ever been able to find, let alone organized discussion topics - just a bunch of mindless dribble most of the time...

Please don't go starting unsubstantiated rumors. Maybe some of you took the bait from a recent post about forum drama being quiet....

I saw it, have a screen shot of it on my phone, however, I do not feel it is appropriate to share here and hope we here from Chumpstaff for an official announcement and can get rid of conjecture and speculation.  You are correct though that it has been removed from facebook.

 

I like Bill and his family a lot.  Having attended two central region events they ran, plus the New Years Eve Vegas race.  You could tell he has a lot of passion and excitement for what he does/did, but maybe it just wasn't focused in the direction that other individuals felt was appropriate for the series.  There I go speculating.....

Edited by hotchkis23
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3 hours ago, cheseroo said:

 

Good point.  I only peeked over here when I was told the Sept 24hr race was off the schedule.  I've stopped paying attention to CC for a couple of reasons.

 

1.  I realized that it's been 4 or so years since I've entered any of my cars in a CC race and it was hypocritical for me to continue to say anything.  

2.  I/we still have a fair bit of anger from how we were treated back then.  As such, any time I posted that anger came out.

 

So I would say in order to fix #1, #2 needs to be taken care of.  I don't care to rehash the past but maybe understand that no one has ever reached out to any of us and apologized much less acknowledged that we did get treated like subhumans.  Apparently some people didn't but the people who did likely will continue to hold it against you if nothing is ever said of it.

 

Again, I hope it works out.  I love the 24s.  We're doing the one in 2 weeks and would love to do it again in September.

In defense of Chumpcar, I'm not sure that the current BOD, or the COO Mike Chisek, nor the Central & West RD's , Mike Morrison & Bill Guzenski - are fully aware, nor responsible for the treatment you received 4 years ago. These 3 guys, and the current BOD, are running things quite a bit different than things were run in the JC days. I have met them all, and have worked races with their crews. All are passionate, and willing to listen to their customers, and they are attentive and willing to move the series in the direction that MOST of their customers want it to become. Chumpcar is no longer the crapcan series that it once was, with an egotistical and snide dictator, such as the Citrus or early CC series are/were...

I have read about, and fully understand, that Cathy & Chris (LDRL), and  Joey (WRL), along with a few others - had issues with Chumpcar, and moved on - and that they treat their customers very well. However, I feel very strongly that Chumpcar now has that same type of leadership in it's ranks.

Even though some of the recent rule changes have gone in the direction that did not appeal to some, I would encourage those of you who abandoned CC to give it another try. I think - just as Lenbo has alluded to - that you will find things are much different now, as the organization has made, and continues to make, steps in the right direction.

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1 hour ago, mcoppola said:

In defense of Chumpcar,.....

 

I'm sorry, I deleted my post.  Apparently not quick enough for someone to grab and respond.  My sentiments are unchanged however  But note that it's not just our team that likely feels the same way.  In two weeks there will be 160? 180? cars running at Sears Point and hearing another 60 at Buttonwillow.  On the same weekend, booked against each other.  1 or 2 of our cars were waitlisted for Sears Point so whatever their count ends up is whatever they capped it at.  The teams are here.  I'm sure the current leadership is just fine and nice as can be, I've never heard anything otherwise.  And that's partially why I deleted it.  They don't know what people went through so perhaps that's why it may feel like they don't care.  Probably the better route would be to write the board a letter so perhaps they might get a better understanding of why this region nosedived so badly.

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6 minutes ago, cheseroo said:

 

 In two weeks there will be 160? 180? cars running at Sears Point and hearing another 60 at Buttonwillow.  On the same weekend, booked against each other.  

The Citrus League is The Citrus League.That many cars on that track? NOT FUN!      All I have seen is a 60 car cap for the LDL at Buttonwillow,so 60 cars maybe,maybe not........

Not disputing or discrediting what you are saying or the issues you had.  Seems to me that CC is the best of the best. Real racing,real tracks. Not an overcrowded follow the leader,or spend what ever you want and run what you brung show.

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12 hours ago, mcoppola said:

Social media sucks (as I've said a million times.) Just searched Bill's FB account, using my wife's FB account, and saw no mention about Bill leaving Chumpcar. But as I said, FB sucks, as there is no chronological order to it that I've ever been able to find, let alone organized discussion topics - just a bunch of mindless dribble most of the time...

Please don't go starting unsubstantiated rumors. Maybe some of you took the bait from a recent post about forum drama being quiet....

I saw it as well...my teammate was one of the people asking him...you can still see the response of Wayne Goodwin (my teammate) saying he will be missed...it was not unsubstantiated but has now been removed.

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27 minutes ago, cheseroo said:

 

I'm sorry, I deleted my post.  Apparently not quick enough for someone to grab and respond.  My sentiments are unchanged however  But note that it's not just our team that likely feels the same way.  In two weeks there will be 160? 180? cars running at Sears Point and hearing another 60 at Buttonwillow.  On the same weekend, booked against each other.  1 or 2 of our cars were waitlisted for Sears Point so whatever their count ends up is whatever they capped it at.  The teams are here.  I'm sure the current leadership is just fine and nice as can be, I've never heard anything otherwise.  And that's partially why I deleted it.  They don't know what people went through so perhaps that's why it may feel like they don't care.  Probably the better route would be to write the board a letter so perhaps they might get a better understanding of why this region nosedived so badly.

No need for apologies. I totally understand how you feel, as many of us (me included) are very passionate, and sometimes our words reflect that.

My only message was just as you stated, we DO have good leadership, and it would be really nice to see some migration back to this series in order to provide another venue for West teams to compete in. I didn't take your original post as being offensive at all. You were just relating the unfortunate experiences you had in the past. I hope those type of experiences STAY in the past - for you and all of the others teams that went through them - should you decide to come back and give Chumpcar a try again.  

Best wishes!

 

18 minutes ago, curtwill said:

I saw it as well...my teammate was one of the people asking him...you can still see the response of Wayne Goodwin (my teammate) saying he will be missed...it was not unsubstantiated but has now been removed.

Darn, but thanks for the clarification. Being an eternal optimist, I hope that the deletion means that Bill will be staying on, and if not, I wish Bill and Chumpcar the best of success moving forward.

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2 hours ago, KDJones2000 said:

 

Can you guys get it back on the schedule on the CCWS official website then?

 

Thanks!

 

We'll get that done tonight.

 

Edit: It's back up right now.

Edited by Mikiel
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4 hours ago, Ian Moone said:

The Citrus League is The Citrus League.That many cars on that track? NOT FUN!      All I have seen is a 60 car cap for the LDL at Buttonwillow,so 60 cars maybe,maybe not........

Not disputing or discrediting what you are saying or the issues you had.  Seems to me that CC is the best of the best. Real racing,real tracks. Not an overcrowded follow the leader,or spend what ever you want and run what you brung show.

 

I'm not particularly a huge fan of 180 cars at Sears either but it does require a completely different set of skills than concentrating on purely running the fastest laps that you can for 2 hours without hardly anyone else on track so I do like adapting to the challenge.  However, that's not the point I was trying to make.  My point is that there are going to be easily over 200 cars and perhaps 250 running on the same weekend within a 4 hour drive of each other.  That doesn't include the 3 I'm leaving at home or the what 50? 100? others than may exist in this area.  Normally car count is limited by the number of cars available.  That's clearly not the problem that CCWS faces out here.  For years people on this forum have come up with the same old tired reasons why CCWS car counts are so low in the west while also discounting the idea that maybe it's possible that 100% of the people in LeMons or Lucky Dog are not just out on track jacking off.  But just to humor those that truly believe that no one really races in LeMons, let's say that 90% of them are just screwing around.  If you were able to capture that other 10% and add it to the people that primarily are CC only, there would no longer be discussions like these.  10%.  That's it.  It shouldn't be that hard to get 7-10% but that problem continues to plague the west.

 

As for the comment about spending what you want in LeMons, I'd argue it's the other way around.  Haven't looked at the rules lately but don't you allow coil overs and in general suspension is fairly open?  You get to rebuild engines as often as you like?  When you ask permission to replace your warped BMW head with a reconditioned one off craigslist, they don't encourage you to go to the DIY junkyard to pull the head off a BMW instead?  I'm still running on cut springs,asking for permission to rebuild my RX7 motor but using used seals and hand lapping my own irons.  That's what I'm doing in LeMons.  In general, doing things in the spirit of a $500 racecar and not walking into Mazdatrix or Turner Motorsports and dropping $10k on stuff that is within the Chump rules but not LeMons.  

 

I'm fully cognizant that I just opened up Pandora's box of comparing series but it's really hard to let that stuff go when there is so much misconception on both sides.  And it's counterproductive.  It's not getting CCWS anywhere.  Just continuing to say CCWS is better isn't making your car count go up here in the west.  I've sent my thoughts to the CC board and they can do with it as they choose.  It's good to hear BW is back on the schedule.  I'll crawl back into my hole and probably reappear when that race gets closer.  Good luck to you all.

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