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X-bar door roll bars no longer accepted?


turbogrill
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Hi,

 

When we brought our car for the 2017 tech inspection he told us that a X door bars are no longer accepted. They are considered as 1.5 bars instead of 2 bars. 

The tech inspector said he would let it go if we added gussets in between.

 

I asked a independent roll cage builder and he said that it was nonsense as long as the welds are good and that much more "serious" racing series didn't have that requirement. (different guy from who built my cage)

 

Is this the new reality or just a temporary "glitch" form one of the tech inspectors??

 

Anyone else had a similar experience? 

 

 

 

Edited by turbogrill
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15 hours ago, Agfracing said:

3.2.3 in the rules says x bars are acceptable. 

 

Sounds like the tech guy was going on a personal bias. I did a lot of rally car cage research back in school going through FIA documents and such. X bars in many cases are actually safer than NASCAR bars, depending on the strength of your rocker and lower sill.

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13 hours ago, skierman64 said:

Turbo, what race did this happen at?

 

We have x bars and have passed tech in CCWS, AER, SCCA, NASA and WRL. 

 

Just because it passes tech I don't have to like it.........

I am one of those people with the strong bias towards Nascar bars. Having raced a car where my hip was touching the door bars......NO THANKS. When sitting in my Civic I stuggle to reach out and touch the driver side door bar, and that makes me feel much more comfortable. 

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@red0 well a "better" design that is poorly implemented (for example, touching the door bars like you mentioned), is obviously going to be worse than a well-implemented "worse" design.

 

The thing that makes NASCAR bars work is their ability to transfer the crash energy into the rocker. If you look at a stock car, they have huge essentially square tubes running along the base of the door sill which can absorb that energy. Run the base of a NASCAR bar cage into either an unsupported lower sill bar or the flimsy OEM rocker material, and you're going to end up with some serious deformation from all of the small non-continuous chunks of tubing running to unsupported nodes. Properly bent X bars don't have that issue, and so if you can package them into your safety cell without getting near the occupants, it actually ends up being better at redirecting energy from the point of impact to highly-supported nodes on the cage that are away from the driver's most vital bits.

 

Either way, both options are more than adequate for the conditions we race in and speeds that we are capable of reaching. If NASCAR bars make you more comfortable, by all means run them. I've raced in cars with both options.

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You can have x bars on the driver's door. 

Our rules call for 2 horizontal door bars.  Technically an X bar is one horizontal bar with two braces.

As long as you add a minimum of a 6 inch gusset on both sides of the intersection it will pass. 

It's been that way for a while now. 

Phil McKinney

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1 hour ago, Mopar 63 said:

You can have x bars on the driver's door. 

Our rules call for 2 horizontal door bars.  Technically an X bar is one horizontal bar with two braces.

As long as you add a minimum of a 6 inch gusset on both sides of the intersection it will pass. 

It's been that way for a while now. 

Phil McKinney

 

Phil, is the gusset requirements written into the rule book? 

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9 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

Phil, is the gusset requirements written into the rule book? 

I don't think it is.

 

I wasn't clear, the tech guy said I had to fix it for NEXT race. I hope everyother tech guy is as good. Crazy if a team can't race because of this

 

 

One roll cage guy said that the gussets could be contra productive, in a crash they might bend and shear the driver. Any comments on that?

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22 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

Phil, is the gusset requirements written into the rule book? 

 

10 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

I don't think it is.

 

I wasn't clear, the tech guy said I had to fix it for NEXT race. I hope everyother tech guy is as good. Crazy if a team can't race because of this

 

 

One roll cage guy said that the gussets could be contra productive, in a crash they might bend and shear the driver. Any comments on that?

 

I hate to be that guy but:

 

 

3.2.15. No waivers or "repair by next event" allowances will be granted on any roll-cage issue. Make sure it’s 100% right the first time.

 

turbogrill got a waiver (which the rules prohibit) to add something to his cage not required in the rules...

Be careful CC, this is the stuff that drives people away.

 

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2 hours ago, Mopar 63 said:

Our rules call for 2 horizontal door bars.

3.2.3. Two driver-side door bars (labeled “7”) that will prevent cockpit intrusion. NASCAR-style or X-design is acceptable.

If you mean two horizontal bars PLUS the X braces, then the rule book needs to be re-written.  Perhaps with two illustrations showing the acceptable layouts.

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1 hour ago, tommytipover said:

 

 

I hate to be that guy but:

 

 

3.2.15. No waivers or "repair by next event" allowances will be granted on any roll-cage issue. Make sure it’s 100% right the first time.

 

 

Tricky...it's not in the rules :)

 

Several people had to redo cage work that day for other reasons (don't know the details but proberly valid reasons).

 

Just want to make sure that I am not trying to discredit the tech guy.  If there is a flaw in my roll cage I am happy to know about it.

But maybe the rules needs clarification since it's something that most team can't fix without professional help.

 

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18 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

But then where we we store the NOS ?! :ph34r:

The way your car screams, now you've got me wondering.....

Careful, I know some guys that might take you serious. ??

Edited by mcoppola
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I'm on vacation this week and out of touch with my home computer. 

Its in the rules that two horizontal door bars are required for the driver's door. 

My unwritten interpretation has and will remain that an X bar does not meet this minimum requirement. 

If a car show up at tech with this on their car their car they can;

1) add 6" gussets at the intersection

2) add a second horizontal bar

3) pack up and go home. 

Phil McKinney

 

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My biggest concern with x bars would be the vertical protection in the middle. In some designs there is alot of space from the middle of the x to the ground. A second horizontal bar would leave less gap here for a bumper to end up under your legs. It would also leave less room for the cage to be compressed through the floor at the cage feet (low odds of entire horizontal bar passing through the floor). 

 

I would not be surprised if cc adds anti intrusion plate rules in the future. Easier to do this with nascar style. On cup cars we have steel plate on drivers side and kevlar\glass covers on the passenger. Over cage strength in a wreck, i think small object intrusion is bigger issue.

IMG_0192_2.jpg

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