wvumtnbkr Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Does anybody here run an accusump? Have you had a bow-uppity engine that is now no longer blow-uppity with the addition of an accusump? Did you make your own? Does it work? How do you manage the start-ups and shutdowns regarding pit stops? Do you use a valve? Do you just let the accusump fill back up before beating on the car? DO you think it hurts the engine to need to fill the accusump everytime you shut the engine down? Im thinking of adding one. I am getting short on time to figure out how to baffle my oil pan (I don't have quite the skills some others on here do). Thanks for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Use the valve to capture oil before you shut it off and to get the sump oil level at a "normal" level. Rev the engine up to about 3000 rpm, close the valve then do your normal shutdown. This stores oil at running oil pressure and allows you to accurately check the oil level. It should be about 1/2 litre over the full mark for our racing. On start-up, open the valve a few seconds before you crank the engine and you'll never have a dry start. Try to install the accusump in a vertical position to help keep the oil on the right side of the internal piston. I installed a pressure gauge in mine (autocross) and bled the air off after events, then refilled it through the Schrader valve to repressurize the accusump. It's better than no provision but not as good as a properly baffled pan. Too bad you're not closer, I'd lean over your shoulder while you mangled some metal to baffle your pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, mender said: Use the valve to capture oil before you shut it off and to get the sump oil level at a "normal" level. Rev the engine up to about 3000 rpm, close the valve then do your normal shutdown. This stores oil at running oil pressure and allows you to accurately check the oil level. It should be about 1/2 litre over the full mark for our racing. On start-up, open the valve a few seconds before you crank the engine and you'll never have a dry start. Try to install the accusump in a vertical position to help keep the oil on the right side of the internal piston. I installed a pressure gauge in mine (autocross) and bled the air off after events, then refilled it through the Schrader valve to repressurize the accusump. It's better than no provision but not as good as a properly baffled pan. Too bad you're not closer, I'd lean over your shoulder while you mangled some metal to baffle your pan. Oil pan with baffles - If ya wanna make me one, I would pay you for it..... Accusump - can you just use a big piece of vertical pipe without the piston assembly? Also, I would need to open the hood and turn the valve before and after every pit stop in your scenario above. Is that practical? Would I hurt the engine if we just left the valve open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Just now, wvumtnbkr said: Oil pan with baffles - If ya wanna make me one, I would pay you for it..... Accusump - can you just use a big piece of vertical pipe without the piston assembly? Also, I would need to open the hood and turn the valve before and after every pit stop in your scenario above. Is that practical? Would I hurt the engine if we just left the valve open? PM me and we'll see if we can work something out. You can use a pipe but the piston helps keep air out of the oil and also stops air from being injected when the oil is at the bottom. Get a fire bottle cable or an electric solenoid so you can actuate it remotely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Yes. the vertical pipe works fine. I used it with my turbo cars and it keeps the oil light out for about 10 secs post shutdown. 3/8in lines works great with no valve at all, just a T near the oil filter. If the oil line is too big you loose too much pressure on hot starts, but the 3/8 seems to work great . It saved many races.. i used to have a link posted here for pics of it . I still have one and could post a couple of pics if you like. 10in of pipe is enough . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 minute ago, flyinglizard said: Yes. the vertical pipe works fine. I used it with my turbo cars and it keeps the oil light out for about 10 secs post shutdown. 3/8in lines works great with no valve at all, just a T near the oil filter. If the oil line is too big you loose too much pressure on hot starts, but the 3/8 seems to work great . It saved many races.. i used to have a link posted here for pics of it . I still have one and could post a couple of pics if you like. 10in of pipe is enough . Please DO post up some pics! Thanks! Rob R. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators E. Tyler Pedersen Posted March 22, 2017 Administrators Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Rob, we were blowing up 3.3Ls on the Subaru and then we found out that the engine was starving for oil in some of the turns if you pulled too many gs. We ended up installing an Accusump and it saved me a lot of money in the long run. If you were going to let the car sit for a while I would go ahead and turn the valve off, but for pit stops I never did. Pretty handy option if you have oil problems with the turns. Also we bought ours and did not make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Rob, how far are you from Saxton, PA 16678? There's a guy there that would build you a baffle if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Rob, Neon used to roast engines every 6 races. Slow bearing death from repeated partial starvation. Bigger pan with baffles and accusump fixed the issue. I used to hold 4.5 qrts, now 8 qrts and the accsump. It now takes about a minute to run out of oil with motor off. No more bearing wear after several races. My biggest issue was many engines will "bunker" or get stuck a quart or two of oil under lateral acceleration. You dont get this oil back from the covers, head and side of the block until you stop turning. Baffels alone may not stop it. I do not use a valve on the accusump. It would take a lifetime of cold no pressure starts to do the damage one stint of accidental valve off operation would cause. Some of the electric valves have slow flow rates, which can also be an issue. -8 or -10 line straight in to the unit from a sandwich adapter or in my case oem pan output for oil cooler. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) The accumulator works better than a baffled or trap door pan, and can make more power by allowing the oil level to be lower. Pics wont load, Ilink to my FB page in a minute. FWIW if you mount it inside the car and you can feel it get hot, you know it works. Edited March 25, 2017 by flyinglizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) https://www.facebook.com/ogrenengineering/ Edited March 25, 2017 by flyinglizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 Really Dumb Question..... How do you know how much oil to put in or when to add oil? I assume that at a pit stop, the oil will drain back to the pan and overfill it. Should I do some experimenting and mark the dipstick where FULL with the accumulator open is? How does anybody else do this? Am I being clear? Thanks for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross2004 Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 That's going to be hard to do without a valve. With a valve it's easy: open valve, bring rpms up to make sure it's filled, close valve, shut of engine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 Follow up dumb question.... How do you check your oil with engine running? The dipstick mark is for engine off and all oil in crankcase. Even with the valve, how do you know how much oil is in the accumulator? I suspect that I am going to need to fill up the system (with a valve to not let ANY oil in the accumulator) and figure out how much oil is used in the entire system. I guess I could fill the system and make sure it is "FULL" on the dipstick (and count the quarts of oil that go in). Then run the engine and see where the dipstick mark is with the engine running. Finally, open the valve (oil should travel into accumulator) and ADD oil until I am back to where I want to be with the engine running on the dipstick (if oil will in fact go into the accumulator with the engine running). I suspect that is exactly what I want it to do.... Then when it the engine cools down, check the oil once more with the engine off and mark that as the "full mark" on the dipstick with the engine off and the accumulator plumbed. Clear as mud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 Rob, You are worried about the dynamic level of the oil because you don't want to beat it up with the crank and lose power, aerate it, ect. I would do the math at a typical oil pressure and determine how much oil your particular accumulator will hold at that pressure (Think P1V1 = P2V2 from fluids/physics class for the air volume). For mine that is about 1.5 quarts. Fill the engine to the normal full level and add the extra (in my case 1.5 quarts) to the engine and mark your dipstick. Use this mark and now always check oil with he valve open, engine off and oil in the pan. This happens naturally in my car after a pit stop, because the motor has been off for a minute or two and I do not run a valve. My oil pan holds 8 quarts at the normal dynamic height that the stock motor runs 5 quarts at. If it is easy just add a ton of capacity to your oil pan and carry a ton of extra oil. Dynamic height is no longer an issue then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eman911 Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 You are thinking too hard. Just put a valve on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 14 minutes ago, Eman911 said: You are thinking too hard. Just put a valve on it. How do you check it with a valve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEE DEE Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Rob shop around for used accusumps they are all around at very reasonable prices. i have paid $100 -$200 for complete systems with lines, manual and electric units with gauges. Do it the correct way dude don't Frankenstein it ! Pre oiling is the cat's ass with an accusump. Edited March 28, 2017 by DEE DEE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eman911 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Just shut the valve prior to shutting off the engine, I tell my drivers to shut it when they stop at pit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Sammich Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 How critical is baffling the pan if you use the accusump? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Ray Franck Posted March 28, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 4 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: How do you check it with a valve? Ross 2004 has it right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 So, the only way to check the oil level when initially filling it is to check it while it's running? Surely there is another way... what info would checking it while it's running give you? That is not how the dipstick is setup. Me thinks I need to do more research.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 15 hours ago, ross2004 said: That's going to be hard to do without a valve. With a valve it's easy: open valve, bring rpms up to make sure it's filled, close valve, shut of engine. I think I read this wrong the first time. You are saying to close the valve while running and then shutoff the engine. I kept reading it as checking while engine was running... Reading fail on my part.... Thanks everybody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 You can also purchase the vertical pistonless version, The price has nothing to do with how it works . The piston allows you to lay it on it's side. That is all. Having the valve does allow pre oiling . I have used both styles with and wihtout valve. For checking the oil level . Some sticks will read with the engine running at idle.. Usually the oil will splash on the stick with enough RPM to partially fill the can. More RPM = more oil inthe can . More commonly, you fill the pan with the normal amount , plus 1- 2 qts . depends on how big the can is. Put a mark on the stick. leave the valve open on pit stops , check level to stick . Dont over think it. With the 3/8 or 1/2 in hose you dont need a valve. The can works better than a baffled pan because you have maybe 5-15 secs of oil pressure with the pickup exposed to air. A baffled , trap door pan may have wil expose the pickup less often but leaves almost no pressure when it happens. Just airpressure and foam. Plus a recovery time . Having both is good. Nothing will overcome a continual air suk . IE Daytona pace laps. Baffled pan with run out of oil in about 20secs if you have good oil control in the head . The can will starve oil after it runs out at about 20secs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 11 hours ago, Ham Sammich said: How critical is baffling the pan if you use the accusump? Just as critical as without the accusump. If you have oil flow out of the accusump, the oil pickup is being uncovered, dropping the system oil pressure and also aerating the oil by having the pump pull air into the system. Granted, aerated oil at reduced pressure is better than just air but the ideal is non-aerated oil at full pressure at all times. Baffle the pan properly and you'll also reduce windage losses by controlling where the oil is. Having a low oil level in the pan doesn't keep oil from splashing around and getting on the crank, only proper baffling will. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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