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2017 BCCR Rule Change 1.0.2


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"glass safety film like 3M makes"???  Really, that's all the description we get?  Maybe a product name, list of suitable part numbers, or a material description.  3M makes everything from window tint to anti-scratch coatings.  "like 3M makes" just makes the rule more confusing by implying any 3M glass film product (including tint) is acceptable.  Delete those 3 words, or clarify with actual product names and part numbers. 

 

Edit - don't mean to be mean, it's just that the rest of the rule book is so generally well-written, a line similar to "like 3M makes" is REALLY out of place.

Edited by Hi_Im_Will
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 Likewise I provided a page out of the FIA rulebook that showed specific size requirements and material thickness for taco style gussets, yet our rulebook now just says "with gussets."

Very vague...  No mention of anything similar to the drawing that Phil provided in that thread. The way the rule is written, you could show up with a couple of those little triangular tabs and be sent home if Tech doesn't like it. 

image.jpeg

Edited by mcoppola
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17 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

"glass safety film like 3M makes"???  Really, that's all the description we get?  Maybe a product name, list of suitable part numbers, or a material description.  3M makes everything from window tint to anti-scratch coatings.  "like 3M makes" just makes the rule more confusing by implying any 3M glass film product (including tint) is acceptable.  Delete those 3 words, or clarify with actual product names and part numbers. 

 

Edit - don't mean to be mean, it's just that the rest of the rule book is so generally well-written, a line similar to "like 3M makes" is REALLY out of place.

Have to agree with you there....

Quote

...covered by a glass safety film like 3M makes.

should be changed to wording which conveys the reason for having the film on the window, and an actual product name:

 

"...covered by a glass safety film on both sides so that in the event of a collision the window will remain intact to prevent glass cleanup on the track. 3M(tm) Safety and Security Window Film or similar is acceptable."

 

[edit for actual product Phil listed in his petition]

[also note that Phil's petition states film should be on both sides of the glass]

Edited by enginerd
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Clarification on the door bars would be good.

 

Is it OK for a 3-bar (1 solid, 2 'halves') x-bar as long as it has gussets?  This is what is generally used, with all bars in a single plane when viewed from above, X from the side.  1 bar goes between main hoop and a-pillar down-tube, with the second/third bar intersecting and welded to the single bar.

 

 

Or, does the new rule mean any driver side X-bar must be 2 single bars that each span the distance from main hoop to a-pillar down-tube (outer bar with a slight bend to clear the other) along with gussets? 

 

 

 

Excuse the really crappy paint drawings.   Is the top one OK with gussets and bottom OK w/o gussets? Or does it need to be the bottom type with gussets?

 

 

new cage rule.png

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22 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

I asked at the BOD, and they said they did not want to require a certain brand. 

I thought the same thing about what you guys have noted above. 

 

Over the years I have towed wrecks, random window tint seems to do a decent job of holding the majority of broken tempered glass in one crunchy unit.

 

Just thinking out loud.

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Bill, when is the gusset rule effective, immediately? Does a sill bar plus one continuous X bar meet the requirement, or if you have ANY type of X bar design you have to have gussets? 

 

Are taco gussets required, are plates acceptable I hope? I assume no stipulation for on top & bottom vs sides since it isn't stipulated? We are less than 2 weeks from our first race and want to make sure we pass tech. At this point we have to beg for welding time and are days away from losing our build space. 

 

Thanks

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9 minutes ago, J Mills said:

Bill, when is the gusset rule effective, immediately? Does a sill bar plus one continuous X bar meet the requirement, or if you have ANY type of X bar design you have to have gussets? 

 

Are taco gussets required, are plates acceptable I hope? I assume no stipulation for on top & bottom vs sides since it isn't stipulated? We are less than 2 weeks from our first race and want to make sure we pass tech. At this point we have to beg for welding time and are days away from losing our build space. 

 

Thanks

 

Email Phil McKinney for a clarification. phil.mckinney@chumpcar.com

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13 minutes ago, J Mills said:

Bill, when is the gusset rule effective, immediately? Does a sill bar plus one continuous X bar meet the requirement, or if you have ANY type of X bar design you have to have gussets? 

 

Are taco gussets required, are plates acceptable I hope? I assume no stipulation for on top & bottom vs sides since it isn't stipulated? We are less than 2 weeks from our first race and want to make sure we pass tech. At this point we have to beg for welding time and are days away from losing our build space. 

 

Thanks

Do you have a picture that shows your door and sill bars? Post it, and that might help some of us to provide an answer.

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3 hours ago, Bill Strong said:

I asked at the BOD, and they said they did not want to require a certain brand. 

I thought the same thing about what you guys have noted above. 

In that case, how about this:

18 hours ago, enginerd said:

"...covered by a glass safety film on both sides so that in the event of a collision the window will remain intact to prevent glass cleanup on the track. 3M(tm) Safety and Security Window Film or similar is acceptable."

Maybe I'm crazy here, but I think including in the rule the purpose/intention is important. It was made clear in the board meeting that the reason why glass has not been allowed before is because of the risk of track cleanup time/cost.

 

Also, saying:

Quote

"....*Product Name* or similar is acceptable."

In no way implements a requirement of that brand.

Edited by enginerd
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12 minutes ago, Mikiel said:

What the board said was that Phil McKinney would write the glass film rule. Phil has not submitted a rule yet.

So then why the hell did you "update" the rules?

Also need to know if we have to be compliant to the door bar rule immediately, or next time the car goes through tech.

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16 hours ago, NigelStu said:

Clarification on the door bars would be good.

 

Is it OK for a 3-bar (1 solid, 2 'halves') x-bar as long as it has gussets?  This is what is generally used, with all bars in a single plane when viewed from above, X from the side.  1 bar goes between main hoop and a-pillar down-tube, with the second/third bar intersecting and welded to the single bar.

 

 

Or, does the new rule mean any driver side X-bar must be 2 single bars that each span the distance from main hoop to a-pillar down-tube (outer bar with a slight bend to clear the other) along with gussets? 

 

 

 

Excuse the really crappy paint drawings.   Is the top one OK with gussets and bottom OK w/o gussets? Or does it need to be the bottom type with gussets?

 

 

new cage rule.png

 

Your drawings always make me smile.  You sir are an artist!

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5 hours ago, Crank Yankers Racing said:

 

Your drawings always make me smile.  You sir are an artist!

You should see my fire truck drawings.

 

 

Heck, I should start selling my art work.  Help pay for the racing.  I could even start doing racer portraits and action scenes of the cars. 

 

 

:D

 

 

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:36 PM, NigelStu said:

Clarification on the door bars would be good.

 

Is it OK for a 3-bar (1 solid, 2 'halves') x-bar as long as it has gussets?  This is what is generally used, with all bars in a single plane when viewed from above, X from the side.  1 bar goes between main hoop and a-pillar down-tube, with the second/third bar intersecting and welded to the single bar.

 

 

Or, does the new rule mean any driver side X-bar must be 2 single bars that each span the distance from main hoop to a-pillar down-tube (outer bar with a slight bend to clear the other) along with gussets? 

 

 

 

Excuse the really crappy paint drawings.   Is the top one OK with gussets and bottom OK w/o gussets? Or does it need to be the bottom type with gussets?

 

 

new cage rule.png

Here was Phil's drawing and input in an older thread. So the answer to your question (bold, above) is "Yes." Both of your sample drawings should be legal and pass Tech, according to Phil's input.

image.thumb.png.8ae5db110506d56ce3a4cc9d5ff112b9.png

Edited by mcoppola
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