Administrators Bill Strong Posted April 11, 2017 Administrators Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 2017 BCCR has been updated with two changes. Review page two for the changes. Big note that may affect some cars - Drivers side door bar rule change.https://chumpcar.com/downloads/2017ChumpCarBCCR.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi_Im_Will Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) "glass safety film like 3M makes"??? Really, that's all the description we get? Maybe a product name, list of suitable part numbers, or a material description. 3M makes everything from window tint to anti-scratch coatings. "like 3M makes" just makes the rule more confusing by implying any 3M glass film product (including tint) is acceptable. Delete those 3 words, or clarify with actual product names and part numbers. Edit - don't mean to be mean, it's just that the rest of the rule book is so generally well-written, a line similar to "like 3M makes" is REALLY out of place. Edited April 11, 2017 by Hi_Im_Will 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted April 11, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) Likewise I provided a page out of the FIA rulebook that showed specific size requirements and material thickness for taco style gussets, yet our rulebook now just says "with gussets." Very vague... No mention of anything similar to the drawing that Phil provided in that thread. The way the rule is written, you could show up with a couple of those little triangular tabs and be sent home if Tech doesn't like it. Edited April 11, 2017 by mcoppola 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Will said: "glass safety film like 3M makes"??? Really, that's all the description we get? Maybe a product name, list of suitable part numbers, or a material description. 3M makes everything from window tint to anti-scratch coatings. "like 3M makes" just makes the rule more confusing by implying any 3M glass film product (including tint) is acceptable. Delete those 3 words, or clarify with actual product names and part numbers. Edit - don't mean to be mean, it's just that the rest of the rule book is so generally well-written, a line similar to "like 3M makes" is REALLY out of place. Have to agree with you there.... Quote ...covered by a glass safety film like 3M makes. should be changed to wording which conveys the reason for having the film on the window, and an actual product name: "...covered by a glass safety film on both sides so that in the event of a collision the window will remain intact to prevent glass cleanup on the track. 3M(tm) Safety and Security Window Film or similar is acceptable." [edit for actual product Phil listed in his petition] [also note that Phil's petition states film should be on both sides of the glass] Edited April 11, 2017 by enginerd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mills Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 When I click the link I still get the old file. Anyone else seeing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mills Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 It is loading now, when is this effective, immediately? Does a sill bar plus one continuous X bar meet the requirement, or if you have ANY type of X bar design you have to have gussets? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee NigelStu Posted April 12, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Clarification on the door bars would be good. Is it OK for a 3-bar (1 solid, 2 'halves') x-bar as long as it has gussets? This is what is generally used, with all bars in a single plane when viewed from above, X from the side. 1 bar goes between main hoop and a-pillar down-tube, with the second/third bar intersecting and welded to the single bar. Or, does the new rule mean any driver side X-bar must be 2 single bars that each span the distance from main hoop to a-pillar down-tube (outer bar with a slight bend to clear the other) along with gussets? Excuse the really crappy paint drawings. Is the top one OK with gussets and bottom OK w/o gussets? Or does it need to be the bottom type with gussets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted April 12, 2017 Author Administrators Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 I asked at the BOD, and they said they did not want to require a certain brand. I thought the same thing about what you guys have noted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 22 minutes ago, Bill Strong said: I asked at the BOD, and they said they did not want to require a certain brand. I thought the same thing about what you guys have noted above. Over the years I have towed wrecks, random window tint seems to do a decent job of holding the majority of broken tempered glass in one crunchy unit. Just thinking out loud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mills Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Bill, when is the gusset rule effective, immediately? Does a sill bar plus one continuous X bar meet the requirement, or if you have ANY type of X bar design you have to have gussets? Are taco gussets required, are plates acceptable I hope? I assume no stipulation for on top & bottom vs sides since it isn't stipulated? We are less than 2 weeks from our first race and want to make sure we pass tech. At this point we have to beg for welding time and are days away from losing our build space. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikiel Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, J Mills said: Bill, when is the gusset rule effective, immediately? Does a sill bar plus one continuous X bar meet the requirement, or if you have ANY type of X bar design you have to have gussets? Are taco gussets required, are plates acceptable I hope? I assume no stipulation for on top & bottom vs sides since it isn't stipulated? We are less than 2 weeks from our first race and want to make sure we pass tech. At this point we have to beg for welding time and are days away from losing our build space. Thanks Email Phil McKinney for a clarification. phil.mckinney@chumpcar.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted April 12, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, J Mills said: Bill, when is the gusset rule effective, immediately? Does a sill bar plus one continuous X bar meet the requirement, or if you have ANY type of X bar design you have to have gussets? Are taco gussets required, are plates acceptable I hope? I assume no stipulation for on top & bottom vs sides since it isn't stipulated? We are less than 2 weeks from our first race and want to make sure we pass tech. At this point we have to beg for welding time and are days away from losing our build space. Thanks Do you have a picture that shows your door and sill bars? Post it, and that might help some of us to provide an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bill Strong said: I asked at the BOD, and they said they did not want to require a certain brand. I thought the same thing about what you guys have noted above. In that case, how about this: 18 hours ago, enginerd said: "...covered by a glass safety film on both sides so that in the event of a collision the window will remain intact to prevent glass cleanup on the track. 3M(tm) Safety and Security Window Film or similar is acceptable." Maybe I'm crazy here, but I think including in the rule the purpose/intention is important. It was made clear in the board meeting that the reason why glass has not been allowed before is because of the risk of track cleanup time/cost. Also, saying: Quote "....*Product Name* or similar is acceptable." In no way implements a requirement of that brand. Edited April 12, 2017 by enginerd 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikiel Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 What the board said was that Phil McKinney would write the glass film rule. Phil has not submitted a rule yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindspin311 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, Mikiel said: What the board said was that Phil McKinney would write the glass film rule. Phil has not submitted a rule yet. So then why the hell did you "update" the rules? Also need to know if we have to be compliant to the door bar rule immediately, or next time the car goes through tech. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikiel Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding. We're working on it, as well as a clarification for the door bar rule. Hang on a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest E. Tyler Pedersen Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 16 hours ago, NigelStu said: Clarification on the door bars would be good. Is it OK for a 3-bar (1 solid, 2 'halves') x-bar as long as it has gussets? This is what is generally used, with all bars in a single plane when viewed from above, X from the side. 1 bar goes between main hoop and a-pillar down-tube, with the second/third bar intersecting and welded to the single bar. Or, does the new rule mean any driver side X-bar must be 2 single bars that each span the distance from main hoop to a-pillar down-tube (outer bar with a slight bend to clear the other) along with gussets? Excuse the really crappy paint drawings. Is the top one OK with gussets and bottom OK w/o gussets? Or does it need to be the bottom type with gussets? Your drawings always make me smile. You sir are an artist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mills Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 Picture attached. Does this fly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtired Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 5 hours ago, skierman64 said: wow At least you are staying positive and supportive.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee NigelStu Posted April 13, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 5 hours ago, Crank Yankers Racing said: Your drawings always make me smile. You sir are an artist! You should see my fire truck drawings. Heck, I should start selling my art work. Help pay for the racing. I could even start doing racer portraits and action scenes of the cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi_Im_Will Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 hours ago, J Mills said: Picture attached. Does this fly? Yes. You have two continuous bars - the sill bar and a diagonal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted April 13, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) On 4/11/2017 at 11:36 PM, NigelStu said: Clarification on the door bars would be good. Is it OK for a 3-bar (1 solid, 2 'halves') x-bar as long as it has gussets? This is what is generally used, with all bars in a single plane when viewed from above, X from the side. 1 bar goes between main hoop and a-pillar down-tube, with the second/third bar intersecting and welded to the single bar. Or, does the new rule mean any driver side X-bar must be 2 single bars that each span the distance from main hoop to a-pillar down-tube (outer bar with a slight bend to clear the other) along with gussets? Excuse the really crappy paint drawings. Is the top one OK with gussets and bottom OK w/o gussets? Or does it need to be the bottom type with gussets? Here was Phil's drawing and input in an older thread. So the answer to your question (bold, above) is "Yes." Both of your sample drawings should be legal and pass Tech, according to Phil's input. Edited April 13, 2017 by mcoppola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 What happened the the fueling amendment where it was going to be stated the the fueler MUST have both feet on the ground while fueling? This was discussed at the meeting and approved by the board. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 13 hours ago, dogtired said: At least you are staying positive and supportive.... This is a significant mid season rules change I would have expected from the previoius adminstration not the current one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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