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  • Technical Advisory Committee

^Cool - and that is the type of clarification that needs to be included in the rule.  

 

As far as the split X and sill bar, I could see tech NOT passing that as is per the rules, since the 2 required solid/single horizontal bars have much less than 6" of clear space between them at the front downtube.  Another bit of rule clarification is needed for that as well; which bars need to have the 6" min gap?

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
5 hours ago, NigelStu said:

As far as the split X and sill bar, I could see tech NOT passing that as is per the rules, since the 2 required solid/single horizontal bars have much less than 6" of clear space between them at the front downtube.  Another bit of rule clarification is needed for that as well; which bars need to have the 6" min gap?

Unfortunately for @J Mills, I agree with Ben here. Tech could still disapprove it due to the 6" spacing rule, where the diagonal joins the A-pillar tube.  I held off on posting that answer because I've already done enough complaining about rules and their clarity. But if I were @J Mills,  I would add the gussets to ensure the door bars will pass. 

Now you just need a clarification on what constitutes a "legal gusset." Any mere gusset, or one like the drawing Phil provided? 

Soory, I didn't open the can of worms, just trying to fix the problem / rule. 

Edited by mcoppola
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Just for an Email back from Phil that we're legal with our configuration. There is a comment in the rules that the two continuous bars may meet at the same point on the A-pillar. I asked some questions about that spacing in a previous thread but ended up having them land at the same point per that rule.

 

per the rules;

3.2.3.1. The spacing between the fore and aft terminal ends of all door bars (including X-design) must include a separation of no less than six inches of open space when measured at the centerline of each bar. Triangulated bars that meet or join at the front hoop are allowed so long as the spacing of the upper and lower bars (attached to the main hoop) is a minimum of six inches when measured at the centerline of the tubing bar

 

Per Phil, hopefully this gives clarity for anyone else questioning their configuration;

"Yes that configuration will pass tech.  Technically you have two continous bars.  If you didn't have the bottom bar iand all you had was the X it would not meet this requirement.
 
Phil McKinney"

 

Given the blessing from Phil I'm keeping the current configuration, especially since this rule seems in flux and I don't want to start welding things to the car under speculation if the rules are not clear. Gusset clarification is definitely needed. If the rules are updated and adequate lead time is given, we will make changes accordingly. It is simply not practical or reasonable to make a mid-season change that requires fabrication capabilities that many teams lack and expect immediate compliance. It is not a low effort to coordinate with a welder who has his own backlog, book time off work around their availability, get material prepped for welding, manage car logistics from storage etc. with fewer than 10 days to comply when work and obligations take priority over a hobby.

 

 

Edited by J Mills
CLARITY
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  • Technical Advisory Committee

^^^ @J Mills, I'm glad that things worked out for you. I forgot about the part that says the 6" spacing meant at a midpoint between the main hoop and A-pillar bar. (Again, not entirely clear...) 

Looks like a nice build. Good luck at your race with it! 

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19 hours ago, skierman64 said:

 

This is a significant mid season rules change I would have expected from the previoius adminstration not the current one.  

Mid Season rule changes should only apply to "next year" . Most teams are lucky to have one wrenches or welder on a team and forcing  them to make mods in the middle of the season just pushes teams away.  Fair, consistent  rules are the way to go.

Even F1 announces rules changes years in advance and those team have budgets in the 100's of millions.

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7 hours ago, Mellow Mike said:

Mid Season rule changes should only apply to "next year" . Most teams are lucky to have one wrenches or welder on a team and forcing  them to make mods in the middle of the season just pushes teams away.  Fair, consistent  rules are the way to go.

Even F1 announces rules changes years in advance and those team have budgets in the 100's of millions.

To be fair all they are doing here is to try to capture how the X door bars have been treated by tech all along, and opening up another option for people who have cars built for a different series that still have rear glass. 99.9% of chumpcar racers won't be affected in any way. 

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it's not like anybody is building a new car because of these changes.  I'm OK with these changes but would prefer not to pull a driver out while fueling because I think rushing the belts is a much bigger concern than the fire.

Edited by theblue
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6 hours ago, theblue said:

it's not like anybody is building a new car because of these changes.  I'm OK with these changes but would prefer not to pull a driver out while fueling because I think rushing the belts is a much bigger concern than the fire.

 

Are you implying that teams are sending out drivers that aren't fully strapped in?  

 

Edited by skierman64
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not at all... I'm saying rushing more to make that 5 min stop causes more mistakes.     I've had a lap belt that was probably 90% in pop out after a couple laps.  I'm not worried about the more experienced teams, but things happen and I like that 5 mins gives enough time to double check and even clean the window off.   

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16 minutes ago, theblue said:

not at all... I'm saying rushing more to make that 5 min stop causes more mistakes.     I've had a lap belt that was probably 90% in pop out after a couple laps.  I'm not worried about the more experienced teams, but things happen and I like that 5 mins gives enough time to double check and even clean the window off.   

Belt issues still happen to the seasoned ;)

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We had one of the cheaper cam locks.  One of the lap belts popped out, thought it was something not buckled correctly.  A couple of races later it happened again, wondered what was wrong.  Third and fourth time it happened at the same race.  Replaced the belts.

 

I took it apart and one of the pins had rotated a bit so the beveled side was partially exposed.  More expensive belts now and they stay buckled.

 

30 minutes ago, theblue said:

I've had a lap belt that was probably 90% in pop out after a couple laps.   

 

Have a very close look at the orientation of the pins if you have a cam lock.

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2 hours ago, Ron_e said:

We had one of the cheaper cam locks.  One of the lap belts popped out, thought it was something not buckled correctly.  A couple of races later it happened again, wondered what was wrong.  Third and fourth time it happened at the same race.  Replaced the belts.

 

I took it apart and one of the pins had rotated a bit so the beveled side was partially exposed.  More expensive belts now and they stay buckled.

 

 

Have a very close look at the orientation of the pins if you have a cam lock.

 

Solution, Schroth enduro's, they're worth the money

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25 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

Solution, Schroth enduro's, they're worth the money

Can't agree enough! Not only secure, they are the only belts that are so easy to adjust perfect for endurance racing and driver changes. We even had the OMP belts for comparable money prior to the Schroth and the difference is night and day.

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3 minutes ago, Chiefidiot said:

Can't agree enough! Not only secure, they are the only belts that are so easy to adjust perfect for endurance racing and driver changes. We even had the OMP belts for comparable money prior to the Schroth and the difference is night and day.

 

We're going to get endurance 20 races out of our set.  The extra cost over less expensive options divided by 20 is pocket change compared to a race weekend.  Less than a jug of gas.  

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8 minutes ago, RArienzale said:

Does the new X bar requirement apply to both driver and passenger side, or driver side only? We have Nascar style bars on the driver side but a simple X (3 tubes) the the passneger side that would not pass under this clarification. 

Driver side only. The passenger side requirement is very lax. A single bar from A-pillar to main hoop is sufficient for the passenger side door.

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