HGHarpen17 Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Does anyone know if installing a turbocharger on a non-factory turbocharged car is limited to turbochargers installed on VPI list vehicles? Under 4.3.2 of the BCR 2017, the rules state "turbochargers and superchargers, non-OE: 100 pts" without any mention of the turbo needing to come from a vehicle on the VPI list. For comparison, with transmission swaps, the rules are very clear when they state (also under 4.3.2 of the BCR 2017) "transmission / transaxle swap: 25pts for any trans. from a vehicle on the VPI list, includes adapters." I assumed this was intentional, opening up turbos to cars with low enough MPV to afford them. Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 It would be a good way to limit the money spent on turbos if you could prove what car it came from easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig71188 Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Email Phil McKinney, he has been GREAT at responding to any questions/clarifications I have had as we prep "the truck". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted May 9, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 @HGHarpen17 Please post back when you get a ruling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGHarpen17 Posted May 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/9/2017 at 3:16 PM, red0 said: @HGHarpen17 Please post back when you get a ruling. Definitely. I shot Phil an email yesterday, so I'm hoping I get a response. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRVOLKS Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 I to would like to know ? So if my VW TDI came with a turbo do I add the 100pt? If I must take the hit can I use any VW turbo on the car? Bob Mann www.DRVOLKS.com bobtec@comcast.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_e Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 1 hour ago, DRVOLKS said: I to would like to know ? So if my VW TDI came with a turbo do I add the 100pt? If I must take the hit can I use any VW turbo on the car? Bob Mann www.DRVOLKS.com bobtec@comcast.net Stock OE turbo is already taken into account with your vehicle VPI. If you want to run any other turbo then you add points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRVOLKS Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 So my 1998 Beetle TDI Turbo is 100PT as in VPI lookup!!! so that lets me go nuts with 400PT right!!! www.DRVOLKS.com bobtec@comcast.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 That's correct. Go nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 15 hours ago, Ron_e said: Stock OE turbo is already taken into account with your vehicle VPI. If you want to run any other turbo then you add points. this is what my understanding is. Upgrade the turbo, take the hit. Add a turbo to non-turbo car (or supercharger) 100 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, DRVOLKS said: So my 1998 Beetle TDI Turbo is 100PT as in VPI lookup!!! so that lets me go nuts with 400PT right!!! www.DRVOLKS.com bobtec@comcast.net 1998 New beetle is listed at 200 points. Also, on the printable list, it mentions that any turbocharged car is a +100 pt value unless specifically stated. Your starting value is 300 pts. a 1998 Beetle (not a "New Beetle") is 100 points. It would still need the 100 pt adder for the turbo. Edited May 11, 2017 by wvumtnbkr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 Note #2 - Factory supercharged or turbocharged cars add 100 points to the listed value (unless already listed as such) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRVOLKS Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 Vehicle Performance Index (VPI) Lookup: Make:VW Model:Beetle/Super Beetle Year:1998 Vehicle Performance Index (VPI): 100PT They say to use the lookup VIP so here it is so Phil needs make it clear is it 100PT or is it 200PT with turbo??? Bob Mann www.DRVOLKS.com bobtec@comcast.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 I didn't look at the VPI and assumed it listed Beetle TDI.. If the VPI is for the standard 2.0 Beetle, the turbo adds 100pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 Realistically you need a separate VPI if you want to race a TDI powered car. It is not really the same as taking the stock gasoline engine and adding a turbo either from the factory or aftermarket. Also it was not possible to get a diesel beetle without a turbo so it does not fit into the add 100 points for a turbo category. Just submit a request to get it added to the VPI list and I am sure they can work out a value. Back to the original question, since many VW’s came with a BW K0 turbo does that mean that I could run any BW K0 turbo variant? My motivations are a bit different than anybody else’s, I would like to get in some durability testing on some prototype bits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, DRVOLKS said: Vehicle Performance Index (VPI) Lookup: Make:VW Model:Beetle/Super Beetle Year:1998 Vehicle Performance Index (VPI): 100PT They say to use the lookup VIP so here it is so Phil needs make it clear is it 100PT or is it 200PT with turbo??? Bob Mann www.DRVOLKS.com bobtec@comcast.net As stated above, yours is a new beetle. Not a beetle. Pick new beetle from the list. Reread my above post. It covers all of your questions. Your starting value is 300 pts according to the printable list. It matches the lookup system if you follow the 2nd addendum as printed out in the post after mine. New beetle. Edited May 11, 2017 by wvumtnbkr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRVOLKS Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I found the beetle below on the list sorry about that. i still think it should be lower because the TDI can only be sold with a turbo. I still will take the 300pt if I must for WGI and use up the 200PT on go fast parts. But I will install a automatic DSG after the race and back out -75 pt. and them add a CR 2L TDI for +50PT so I think this is right base 300PT engine swap +50PT Automatic -75PT new valve 275PT I still would like to know can I swap out a VW turbo for some other VW turbo and stay at the 100PT unfair point add on? Bob Mann www.DRVOLKS.com bobtec@comcast.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xph Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 9 hours ago, DRVOLKS said: I found the beetle below on the list sorry about that. i still think it should be lower because the TDI can only be sold with a turbo. I still will take the 300pt if I must for WGI and use up the 200PT on go fast parts. But I will install a automatic DSG after the race and back out -75 pt. and them add a CR 2L TDI for +50PT so I think this is right base 300PT engine swap +50PT Automatic -75PT new valve 275PT I still would like to know can I swap out a VW turbo for some other VW turbo and stay at the 100PT unfair point add on? Bob Mann www.DRVOLKS.com bobtec@comcast.net I think you can, you will have to take 25 more points if it has an inter-cooler.... IE... they way I read the rules... if your car / engine comes with an optional turbo, you get that specific setup, turbo, intercooler, etc for 100 points more than the base... if however you use your own optional turbo, you take 100 points for the turbo and 25 for the intercooler. it gets more gray if there are differences between the turbo and non turbo base model of your car (like diff, transmission, engine internals)... in that case, if you were starting with the turbo version and swapping out the turbo, I would assume you get the double 100 point hit... but dont have to take the 25 points for the intercooler cause you paid 100 points for it as part of your chassis... in this case Tech may have a "better" answer, but this would be my interpretation of the rules. Again, I would say with @mhr650 that getting a TDI on the list is the best option, since gas with turbo and diesel with turbo are just not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblue Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 If I find anybody is racing a twin clutch DSG in chumpcar I'm petitioning that this not be eligible for automatic discount. I own two cars with DSG and this is an advantage if anything and arguably not an automatic. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) As a team running a true 4 speed power sucking non-advantageous slushbox we could not agree more, perhaps word the petition to include "hydraulic torque converter" or something specific to discourage such a thing Splitting hairs to make big advantage is the reason the book keeps getting longer, we can all thank our sneaky self's Sorry DrVolks, not against you but it seems to be a strained definition thing going on. Edited May 12, 2017 by Team Infiniti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karman1970 Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 11 hours ago, DRVOLKS said: I found the beetle below on the list sorry about that. i still think it should be lower because the TDI can only be sold with a turbo. I still will take the 300pt if I must for WGI and use up the 200PT on go fast parts. But I will install a automatic DSG after the race and back out -75 pt. and them add a CR 2L TDI for +50PT so I think this is right base 300PT engine swap +50PT Automatic -75PT new valve 275PT I still would like to know can I swap out a VW turbo for some other VW turbo and stay at the 100PT unfair point add on? Bob Mann www.DRVOLKS.com bobtec@comcast.net Unless you know something I don't, the 2.0L CR TDI didn't come on anything currently on the VPI list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, DRVOLKS said: I found the beetle below on the list sorry about that. i still think it should be lower because the TDI can only be sold with a turbo. Using that logic one could say the 1.8T can only be sold with a turbo, which doesn't make sense, you get +100 if there is a turbo on the engine. Edited May 12, 2017 by morganf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRVOLKS Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 4 hours ago, theblue said: If I find anybody is racing a twin clutch DSG in chumpcar I'm petitioning that this not be eligible for automatic discount. I own two cars with DSG and this is an advantage if anything and arguably not an automatic. I have a email from Mike say I can it is listed at VW as a automatic so I will go with it. Bob Mann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGHarpen17 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 On 5/9/2017 at 3:16 PM, red0 said: @HGHarpen17 Please post back when you get a ruling. I got a response from Phil, and he indicated that only turbos from VPI list cars will be allowed under the 100 pt listed value. He said that aftermarket turbos will be assessed on a case-by-case basis, and "probably be classed EC." I hope this helps people out there considering turbo builds. I don't disagree with generally excluding aftermarket turbos (this is a budget series, and doing that can only increase costs), but I personally found the rules to be unnecessarily unclear. If the rules can state definitely "VPI list" for transmission swaps, why can't we just add in "VPI list only turbochargers" to make it clear? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karman1970 Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Yet another entry for the unwritten rule book... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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