Jump to content

How would you handle gridding?


Recommended Posts

  • Members

Maybe Mike and the staff have a plan already in the works, maybe they don't... but as a witness to what happened at Watkin's Glen this past weekend I thought I'd ask the question:

How would you guys handle gridding the cars fairly?

 

For those not in attendance, Mike announced at the beginning of the drivers' meeting that cars could only grid once the pace car was in place.  When the pace car came down pit road we were witness to something akin to a LeMans style race start, all just to be the first behind the pace car.  It amazed me no one got hit or hurt.  Certainly not something I'd like to ever see done again.

So, thoughts?  I've thought maybe going back to the old 'luckiest loser' method, or picking a car from a hat after the pace laps have begun?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the luckiest loser method should be the lowest on the list. 

 

I would vote for gridding from pit lane positions.  Pits are assigned by first singed up (use the minimum deposit as counting the team as being signed up so it isn't a huge burden and favours the "rich" teams).

 

What about if you maintained the same format such that you cant go to the grid until the pace car rolls down pit lane, but.... this time the pace car doesn't drive so fast down pit lane?  If the pace car had just crawled through the pits riding the brakes at 5 mph it would have been a lot more controlled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
1 minute ago, thewheelerZ said:

I think the luckiest loser method should be the lowest on the list. 

 

I would vote for gridding from pit lane positions.  Pits are assigned by first singed up (use the minimum deposit as counting the team as being signed up so it isn't a huge burden and favours the "rich" teams).

 

What about if you maintained the same format such that you cant go to the grid until the pace car rolls down pit lane, but.... this time the pace car doesn't drive so fast down pit lane?  If the pace car had just crawled through the pits riding the brakes at 5 mph it would have been a lot more controlled.

 

My thoughts on you're suggestions:

 

Gridding by deposit dates / pit stalls - How does that work for teams that like to share pit stalls?  Maybe my team pays early, but my pit mates wait until this last minute?

Rolling slower down pit road - This favors the cars nearest where the pace car enters pit road.  Its what happened at WGI.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, riche30 said:

For those not in attendance, Mike announced at the beginning of the drivers' meeting that cars could only grid once the pace car was in place.  When the pace car came down pit road we were witness to something akin to a LeMans style race start, all just to be the first behind the pace car.  It amazed me no one got hit or hurt.  Certainly not something I'd like to ever see done again.

 

 

To be fair, Mike ALREADY announced (in his red flag broadcast) that he will never be using that method again...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
26 minutes ago, Gearhead_42 said:

 

To be fair, Mike ALREADY announced (in his red flag broadcast) that he will never be using that method again...

 

I know.  That's why I'm asking for better alternatives, maybe?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, riche30 said:

 

My thoughts on you're suggestions:

 

Gridding by deposit dates / pit stalls - How does that work for teams that like to share pit stalls?  Maybe my team pays early, but my pit mates wait until this last minute?

Rolling slower down pit road - This favors the cars nearest where the pace car enters pit road.  Its what happened at WGI.

 

 

 

My initial thoughts would be:

 

1) Want to move pit stalls?  Move backwards only.  Feel free to pit with your friends, but that means you lose your coveted pit spot.  Your choice, fun with friends or lead the race wire to wire!

 

2) Technically not really, the smart team would have parked up right behind the pace car where it was parked at the drivers meeting then followed it down into pit road.  Or, the smart teams too could request their pit spot to be right at the entrance!  (In reality, this comment was kind of in jest.  Its still not really a great way to do it, but.... if the pace car didn't rip down pit lane like it did, the commotion would be less of an issue for safety wise)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee

Some thoughts:

 

-Team captains pick numbers at the drivers meeting, number is your starting grid spot.

 

-Random number generator that gives each team a number before race weekend starts (like when team captain registers at the track, they get a starting grid # to put on the windshield somewhere), number is starting spot.

 

-Random number generator that selects a number somewhere between lowest car # and highest car #.  That car number starts P1, next highest car # P2, next highest # P3 and so on, once highest car # is reached, it continues on with car with lowest #.  

 

-Work in Qualifying somehow (either the day before or morning of).  Fastest lap time P1, and so-on.  Logistics are a bit more difficult with this one, as it either adds a whole extra day/half-day to the weekend, or delays the start on the 1st day.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 2 line-up approach is a reasonable compromise.  Cars queue up in 2 lines and when the pace car rolls out a line is randomly selected (Line #1) to form up behind while Line #2 waits until the last car in Line #1 rolls out. No random number generators, 107 captains picking numbers, no staffing logistics, checking numbers.  Keep it simple silly.

Edited by miatainium
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may be way out of line with this but this is endurance racing. ( most of the races ) You cannot win the race in the first 5 minutes but you can lose it. Ask Jackie Ickx. Remember there are more than a few infantile egomaniacs thinking this is world class racing. 

 

  Invert the field from positions of the last race completed. If its a new team give them the option of starting up front or shotgun. Some teams struggle to get the fee's in .They should not be punished for having a shoe string budget. 

 

  Then enjoy the challenge of going through traffic.  

 

Just a thought.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some people want to start at the front, some prefer starting torwards the back.  Allow them to do that. Grid by pit stall, allow people to request a position, and give preference to early registrations.  Maybe even do it like airplane seats - choose your grid spot when you pay your deposit.

 

 Although, the method used now, where you line up at pit-out as soon as the gates open, seems to work OK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Cam Benty said:

 You cannot win the race in the first 5 minutes but you can lose it. Ask Jackie Ickx. Remember there are more than a few infantile egomaniacs thinking this is world class racing.

Some of the leaders would disagree with you.  For example, the RBanks cars were either directly behind the pace car or nearly so.  On Saturday they won by 6 seconds and on Sunday 20 seconds. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is wrong with Early bird gets the worm?

 

Just do it like we have been doing it for years.  Get your car down to the pit lane exit early. 

 

If the pacecar needs to be down there first, move it down first.

 

WE were literally the 2nd or 3rd to last pit stall (near pit in).  We started something like 15th on Saturday because we had our shiz together and got down to pit out before most people.

 

It is safe and gives no disadvantage to anyone.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really have an opinion other than this -

 

If I EVER see someone gridding their car and/or working on it during the national anthem again this year at Sebring, you better believe that I will file a strongly worded verbal protest to your face. To be honest, I was disappointed that team wasn't penalized for it last year.

Edited by FalkenIdiots
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't see why this matters in endurance racing but if you have to do this, base it on fastest speed from last race. If your car was fastest last race you're on the pole. More than 1 car fastest, go by date of most recent race. Never raced before, start at back of pack. We were about 45th fastest at the Glenn so that's about where we would start at next race. You could use this to divide up classes also. Instead of having 30 cars in 1 class and 5 in another, you could divide cars evenly. Hillbilly 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have done it a few different ways.

 

1. Everybody circulating on track, green flag dropped on a random car.

2. Everybody circulating on track nose to tail in single file, green flag dropped on lead car.

3. Everybody circulating on track nose to tail double file, green flag dropped on the lead car.

4. Single file grid, circulating nose to tail, green flag dropped on one of the last cars.

 

In the nose to tail scenario with a pace car typically around 15% of the cars are pushed out to grid before the driver's meeting, they are the teams looking for the win, they are the fast teams, they are the teams that come with a prepared car.  After the driver's meeting the remaining cars meander out on to the grid as they wish/finally get their cars ready.  What I am saying is this thread probably only concerns about 15% of the field.

 

I would say the most fair is the random green flag.  I don't have strong feelings about doing it really any which way.  Not knowing which of the above methods will be used makes it a roll of the dice on how soon you want to grid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curious, is there a problem with gridding cars on the track?  Seems like stopping cars at pit out just created a mess/jam on pit road/paddock. 

 

Just a thought.....what about giving teams a 20min window to grid on track FCFS?  Cars would do one lap and grid on the front straight double file behind the pace vehicle.  After the grid window ends, pit out is closed until the warm up lap starts and any waiting cars can join the back of the field.  When the pace car completes its first lap the pit out is closed.  Pace car comes in on lap 2 and GF is thrown on first row.  Pit out re-opens after the field passes. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee

Whats wrong with the method the East has always used?  It works.  Teams that care will be up early and ready to grid as soon as the gates open.  Teams that dont or arent ready will grid up later.

 

by the way, the follow the pace car crap happened at VIR also, except then the rules changed again and they made us push back to our pit (like 3rd from pit in)... we started so far in the back @ VIR South... If we had been up front where we worked and planned to get @ the beginning, it *COULD* have made the difference in 1st and 2nd.  The other team also worked and planned and was gridded up 2 cars behind us initally, but their pit was about halfway down pit road so they ended up starting well ahead of us after the rules were changed.

Edited by Huggy
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, miatainium said:

Some of the leaders would disagree with you.  For example, the RBanks cars were either directly behind the pace car or nearly so.  On Saturday they won by 6 seconds and on Sunday 20 seconds. 

RBanks clearly won because they were the fastest car that managed to finish, not where they started.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, wneace said:

RBanks clearly won because they were the fastest car that managed to finish, not where they started.

 

Start at the rear if you like.  Rbank, Huggy, EcoTec, us, and the other teams that are ready to race when the gate opens will continue to start up front, because we value an extra 5 laps of clean air while our competitors deal with traffic.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
1 hour ago, Cam Benty said:

I may be way out of line with this but this is endurance racing. ( most of the races ) You cannot win the race in the first 5 minutes but you can lose it. Ask Jackie Ickx. Remember there are more than a few infantile egomaniacs thinking this is world class racing. 

 

  Invert the field from positions of the last race completed. If its a new team give them the option of starting up front or shotgun. Some teams struggle to get the fee's in .They should not be punished for having a shoe string budget. 

 

  Then enjoy the challenge of going through traffic.  

 

Just a thought.

 

 

 

Chumpcar has enough traffic as it is.  Its pretty frustrating watching the leader pull away as you struggle through traffic if you get un-lucky enough to have to start in the back.

 

Let the teams who want it have 5 laps of open track if they come prepared and ready to run.

 

 

Edited by Huggy
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The issue last weekend was that there were two lines of cars, and then guys in their pit stalls were forcing their way in the inside line.  I think the idea of lining up on pit road is fine.  But then everybody needs to be in those lines so people aren't running over each other trying to merge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...