Cars needed for break even?

[turbogrill]

Hi,

 

How many cars are usually needed for a race to not be a loss? 

Obviously it differs from track to track but is this number official?

 

For instance the race at Harris Hill in Texas only has 11 cars. Doesn't sound like a lot. 

Will they cancel races if they make a loss?

[csadn]

1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

 

Will they cancel races if they make a loss?

It's been known to happen that a race which isn't anywhere close to B-E gets the can-o-matic -- it also explains why some tracks which people around here demand be on the schedule aren't: If they don't draw, why bother?

 

1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

How many cars are usually needed for a race to not be a loss?

I don't know about "official", but Math Rarely Lies -- if the math says "20 cars minimum", and fewer than that sign up....

 

Someone might suggest CC post a figure saying "this event needs this many entries to happen"; get that out in the open, so rumor doesn't fester into "fact".

[dogtired]

220-221, whatever it takes...

[chisek]

It would be nice if there were a single number I had to focus on, but it doesn't work that way.  The reality is that each track has it's own price and there are varying costs for staff and travel.

 

-Track prices range from $6,000 per day to $60,000 per day.

-Some tracks charge a "turn key" price, while others only charge for the track.

-All events require (and are included in turn key prices) corner workers, an ambulance, a fire truck and tow truck.

-Staffing levels are determined by the event attendance.  I have 24 people working Daytona but only 8 at Autobahn.

-Increased staffing leads to increased travel costs (they have to sleep and eat).

-A few tracks have limits on the number of cars allowed on track (AMP, Laguna Seca and Mid Ohio).

-The only constants are my insurance and the trophies.

-Events also need to make enough money to cover corporate expenses as well (website hosting, accounting, office supplies, etc).

 

With all of the variables that go into our expenses, and the attendance forecasting we have to do over 12 months in advance, it's possible for us to lose money with 60 cars at one track and make money with 25 cars at another track.  We can lower the minimum number of cars required to break even, but that means we raise the entry fee for the event.  While I would love to see all events in the black, mostly what matters is that for the year, the club is in the black.

 

When I say I need 20 cars to make this happen, part of that statement is just ensuring that the teams have enough other cars to race against.  12 cars is a track day, not a race.  The other part is calculating how much of a loss am I willing to take to host the event.  So this is why sometimes I may say I need 20 cars to make it happen and other times you may hear 35.  If we just sell out every event though, we'll be ok. 

 

Hope this answers your question.

[DRVOLKS]

Thank you for  the information . I all was know it was a hard call for you to book a race never knowing who would come.

You have all way s been very flexible with teams and working with use to get to those races.

 My point with how you run things if some thing gos wrong on the first few laps you work with use to move some of the money to the next race. Thank you for that.

I am booked for a L@@@@ at Thompson and just found the block got cracked at WG and asked Nick if I could just move the funds to the NH race. I was told NO 

so I must eat dirt or try to make the race. with 130 entrys I guess he need the money more then I do as a small business owner. 

Bob Mann

www.DRVOLKS.com

bobtec@comcast.net

[Ronh911]

5 hours ago, DRVOLKS said:

Thank you for  the information . I all was know it was a hard call for you to book a race never knowing who would come.

You have all way s been very flexible with teams and working with use to get to those races.

 My point with how you run things if some thing gos wrong on the first few laps you work with use to move some of the money to the next race. Thank you for that.

I am booked for a L@@@@ at Thompson and just found the block got cracked at WG and asked Nick if I could just move the funds to the NH race. I was told NO 

so I must eat dirt or try to make the race. with 130 entrys I guess he need the money more then I do as a small business owner. 

Bob Mann

www.DRVOLKS.com

bobtec@comcast.net

 

Holy crap! 130 cars at Thompson!  Talk about a rolling parking lot, that will probably get them nose to tail.           No thanks.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Ronh911

[lenbo211]

13 hours ago, Ronh911 said:

 

Holy crap! 130 cars at Thompson!  Talk about a rolling parking lot, that will probably get them nose to tail.           No thanks.

I did 183 with Lemons at Sonoma 2.5 mile track.  Was nuts for about 20 minutes, nerve wracking for about 40 minutes, fun for about 40 minutes, and then relief for about 20 minutes because I survived.  Unless you count the 5 times we had contact and then it's 10 minutes of getting your ass chewed because they were so focused on making as much money as humanly possible that it was somehow my fault they had a traffic jam called a race and that physics don't allow that many cars in that small of a space to drive fast enough to call something a race without contact.

Thankfully I was in a friends car.  I'd never take any car I owned to their events. We felt lucky getting out of there with only 5 dents.

I've made the personal decision that I will never race at an event with more than 45 cars per mile of track. (Unless it's Daytona just because I want to run it so bad)

[FlorahDorah]

3 minutes ago, lenbo211 said:

I did 183 with Lemons at Sonoma 2.5 mile track.  Was nuts for about 20 minutes, nerve wracking for about 40 minutes, fun for about 40 minutes, and then relief for about 20 minutes because I survived.  Unless you count the 5 times we had contact and then it's 10 minutes of getting your ass chewed because they were so focused on making as much money as humanly possible that it was somehow my fault they had a traffic jam called a race and that physics don't allow that many cars in that small of a space to drive fast enough to call something a race without contact.

Thankfully I was in a friends car.  I'd never take any car I owned to their events. We felt lucky getting out of there with only 5 dents.

I've made the personal decision that I will never race at an event with more than 45 cars per mile of track. (Unless it's Daytona just because I want to run it so bad)

 

And yet ChumpCar has this reputation of being a 'crash-fest' on the west coast and people from Lemons don't want to come.... I simply don't *get* this. 

 

@lenbo211 Just take the EC bits off off your car, pick up your mic, and come racing. The best revenge is beating a *cheaty* car. Not to mention those who pick the wrong car with [insert perceived shortcoming here] and then bitch about the rules that keep them from winning. 

[mender]

It's also fun to beat "right" cars with one of those "wrong" cars despite the perceived (or even actual!) shortcoming.  
 

I'm thinking I should petition for classes by ruleset year rather than displacement. I could continue developing my Fiero according to the 2015 rules and see how many 2017 ruleset cars I can beat.

[Andrew D Johnson]

18 minutes ago, mender said:

It's also fun to beat "right" cars with one of those "wrong" cars despite the perceived (or even actual!) shortcoming.  
 

I'm thinking I should petition for classes by ruleset year rather than displacement. I could continue developing my Fiero according to the 2015 rules and see how many 2017 ruleset cars I can beat.

 

My 2014 year car would stomp that fiero. D16 for the win. 

[LAMR2]

I love the placement of those coolers. That's really smart.

[dogtired]

Can we go back to the 2010 E30 rules? Please?

[mender]

6 hours ago, red0 said:

 

My 2014 year car would stomp that fiero. D16 for the win. 

Don't count your win yet.

 

It would have to be better than 7.3 lbs/hp to keep up with my 2015 ruleset-allowed Fiero, or for that matter a Fiero that maxes out the 2017 ruleset. With all the freebies and reduced points, my 499 point 2015 car is now at 303 points for 2017.  I have room for a turbo, intercooler, close ratio transaxle, cooler, and a big rad, not to mention Wilwoods, Bilsteins, race springs, etc.

 

Hmmm; I could install a proven combo that makes 470 hp at 8 psi ...

 

No fuel though, so not much point.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by mender

[dogtired]

1 hour ago, mender said:

Don't count your win yet.

 

It would have to be better than 7.3 lbs/hp to keep up with my 2015 ruleset Fiero, or for that matter a Fiero that maxes out the 2017 ruleset. With all the freebies and reduced points, my 499 point 2015 car is now at 303 points for 2017.  I have room for a turbo, intercooler, close ratio transaxle, cooler, and a big rad, not to mention Wilwoods, Bilsteins, race springs, etc.

 

No fuel though, so not much point.

 

 

Put wider tires on it... some aero... .maybe some graphics....  lots of camber... hell, get a catchy background theme song....

 

"fuelings, nuthin' more than fuelings,

trying to forget my fuelings of laps,

teardrops rolling down on my face trying to forget my fuelings of laps"

 

 

[mender]

I always wanted my own theme song ...

 

 

[Racer28173]

4 hours ago, mender said:

Don't count your win yet.

 

It would have to be better than 7.3 lbs/hp to keep up with my 2015 ruleset-allowed Fiero, or for that matter a Fiero that maxes out the 2017 ruleset. With all the freebies and reduced points, my 499 point 2015 car is now at 303 points for 2017.  I have room for a turbo, intercooler, close ratio transaxle, cooler, and a big rad, not to mention Wilwoods, Bilsteins, race springs, etc.

 

Hmmm; I could install a proven combo that makes 470 hp at 8 psi ...

 

No fuel though, so not much point.

 

 

You should build it and give it a name like...... hmmmmmm....... blitzvending.  Or something like that......

[mender]

I might end up in Dutch with them though ...

[lenbo211]

On 7/25/2017 at 8:07 AM, FlorahDorah said:

 

And yet ChumpCar has this reputation of being a 'crash-fest' on the west coast and people from Lemons don't want to come.... I simply don't *get* this. 

 

@lenbo211 Just take the EC bits off off your car, pick up your mic, and come racing. The best revenge is beating a *cheaty* car. Not to mention those who pick the wrong car with [insert perceived shortcoming here] and then bitch about the rules that keep them from winning. 

Agreed.  Chump was never as much of a crash fest as the one race I ran with Lemons.  That said.  Lemons chewed me a lot more than Chump did for contact.

I put EC bits on my car when the original bits break.  If I'm going to spend the money, I spend it on what I want, not on what rules for a league that threw in the towel on my area tell me I have to use.  And I don't mind driving EC and losing.  Besides, if enough cars from Lucky come over, there'll be enough cars for our own EC class.

[dogtired]

9 hours ago, lenbo211 said:

Agreed.  Chump was never as much of a crash fest as the one race I ran with Lemons.  That said.  Lemons chewed me a lot more than Chump did for contact.

I put EC bits on my car when the original bits break.  If I'm going to spend the money, I spend it on what I want, not on what rules for a league that threw in the towel on my area tell me I have to use.  And I don't mind driving EC and losing.  Besides, if enough cars from Lucky come over, there'll be enough cars for our own EC class.

Probably the wisest statement I've ever read...

[csadn]

On 7/26/2017 at 9:55 AM, lenbo211 said:

Besides, if enough cars from Lucky come over, there'll be enough cars for our own EC class.

Idle Thought: What happens when *every* car at an event is "EC"?

[dogtired]

1 hour ago, csadn said:

Idle Thought: What happens when *every* car at an event is "EC"?

ButtHurt

[lenbo211]

17 hours ago, csadn said:

Idle Thought: What happens when *every* car at an event is "EC"?

Didn't anyone tell you not to idle in a race car?

[csadn]

6 hours ago, lenbo211 said:

Didn't anyone tell you not to idle in a race car?

Well, they also told me to not Think so much, too.... >:)