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Fluid leaks on track (Fuel spray)


Jay T
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At the VIR-24, I got covered in gas leaking from the car in front of me on the track several times. It seemed to me that this was happening a lot. I know ChumpCar black flagged several cars for this, but it didn't seem to stop it from happening. I'm guessing this is coming from cars that just fueled up and it's overflow that stops after a lap or two. BUT, it did cause major visibility issues for us. It seemed the cars that were black flagged didn't fix anything because they couldn't. They just went back out and hoped that it would stop before they got reported again. This is a build issue, not a problem that happened during the race. 

 

Are others noticing this too?  Can corner workers be asked to pay more attention to this?  Can the penalty be increased other than just a stop and go?

 

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Note that the requirement for stock filler necks/caps/vents on OEM tank cars has been removed.  Some cars have pretty terrible fuel filler systems from the factory, now those cars have the option of using something a little more robust than the ultra-thin bayonet-cap junk. 

 

For example, an SAE J1114 cap and neck can be retrofitted to just about anything.  Caps have an integrated vacuum vent so you can delete all that old, cracked, no-longer available venting stuff, and they seal REALLY well, because modern evaporative emissions regulations require it.  Threaded cap crushes that o-ring nice and tight, and being SAE standard, you can get them anywhere, including borrowing the cap from your tow rig if needed.  Also, it's $25 for the pair.  Use the diesel version unless you really want the flapper - the threads are the same.

 

nj-129888-lg.jpgcj-5299-bot-lg.jpgnj-1089-d-lg.jpg*click picture for link

 

Or, if you like your vent system, get a fuel cell cap, or aerospace cap, and never worry about the damn thing leaking again:

 

A26NS

 

FWIW, after f*cking with the OEM BMW stuff for years, I'm of the opinion that bayonet caps should be banned, because they're so leak prone.  Can't do much sealing when the clamp load compressing the o-ring comes from a dinky little spring.

Edited by Hi_Im_Will
updated image/ link for aerospace cap to Newton Aero 200 series instead of cheap knockoff
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14 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

FWIW, after f*cking with the OEM BMW stuff for years, I'm of the opinion that bayonet caps should be banned, because they're so leak prone.  Can't do much sealing when the clamp load compressing the o-ring comes from a dinky little spring.

 

Thanks for the ideas! We've tried replacing the stock cap, but noticed in the Supra's video from NCM we were still dumping some fuel for the first 2 or 3 left turns. We'll have it fixed for the next race.

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There was a a black e30 at Gingerman* (either #325 or #326) which was sloshing out the stock cap location on left hand turns. It was called in by corner workers and I think they got a black flag / meatball but I still saw it leaking after a fuel stop hours later.

 

We had the same thing happen at a race 3 years ago... sloshing fuel on left hand turns and the driver came in 30 minutes early "I don't know why, but I'm out of fuel!!".. so yea, we dumped a few gallons on the track because our least capable teammate didn't put the fuel cap on correctly. Good thing it was tethered or we would have lost it... and good thing the BMW didn't catch fire!

 

[edit] track corrected

Edited by enginerd
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5 hours ago, Jay T said:

Are others noticing this too?  Can corner workers be asked to pay more attention to this?  Can the penalty be increased other than just a stop and go?

 

 

I think it would be pretty tough for a corner worker to notice fuel spray.

 

5 hours ago, dogtired said:

Never been behind a Fox body that didn't spray fuel....

 

Our Fox does not leak, never been flagged for it either.

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Guilty as charged during one stint at VIR. After fueling I forgot to shut a vent check valve and I'm sure the Supra was leaking a little in right turns for a lap. When cars in front of me are spewing fuel I worry more about losing traction than anything else and try to stay off the line they're driving.

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19 minutes ago, dogtired said:

Of course "your car" doesn't.....?

 

I track every drop in and out of the car, the 5.0 doesn't make 1:55's on 17.9 (15.4 + 2 + 0.5 surge) gallons and a wing and a prayer.  We weigh our fuel used and I graph average lap time performance versus fuel consumption cross referenced with driver and RPM shift point.  Our driver lineup is assigned per fuel consumption, stint length, probability of full course yellow, and traffic as well as individual shift points.  Not a huge variation on shift points but all four drivers do have a distinct fuel consumption trend.  We don't have any to waste.

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This is just part of racing. I see it at every race and the same teams have it happen every time. I think it is cars with a fuel cell and check valve vent. I have seen it pour out all over the place. I do not know why they do not address it themselves as they lose so much fuel it must be effecting their stint length. Just part of chump racing.

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As per the rules our fuel cell has a check vent valve.

 

Back in our early RX-7 days we did have two leak incidents on our stock gas tank.  The first was an old cap that the rubber seal had failed.  The second was a dufus fuel filler dude that didn't put the stock cap on correctly, one tab was in and one tab was out of the filler neck.

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7 hours ago, Ron_e said:

 

I track every drop in and out of the car, the 5.0 doesn't make 1:55's on 17.9 (15.4 + 2 + 0.5 surge) gallons and a wing and a prayer.  We weigh our fuel used and I graph average lap time performance versus fuel consumption cross referenced with driver and RPM shift point.  Our driver lineup is assigned per fuel consumption, stint length, probability of full course yellow, and traffic as well as individual shift points.  Not a huge variation on shift points but all four drivers do have a distinct fuel consumption trend.  We don't have any to waste.

You might want to switch to DeCaf there Bro......  ????

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4 hours ago, dogtired said:

You might want to switch to DeCaf there Bro......  ????

 

Winning with a Fox doesn't happen by accident.

 

My team used to laugh at my careful consideration of the strategy.  Now, if I tell them I am thinking about 2 or three different strategies they say to tell them which one I think is best, they will try to look as if they are carefully considering it for a few minutes, then just agree with whatever I recommend.

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On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 6:58 AM, Jay T said:

At the VIR-24, I got covered in gas leaking from the car in front of me on the track several times. It seemed to me that this was happening a lot. I know ChumpCar black flagged several cars for this, but it didn't seem to stop it from happening. I'm guessing this is coming from cars that just fueled up and it's overflow that stops after a lap or two. BUT, it did cause major visibility issues for us. It seemed the cars that were black flagged didn't fix anything because they couldn't. They just went back out and hoped that it would stop before they got reported again. This is a build issue, not a problem that happened during the race. 

 

Are others noticing this too?  Can corner workers be asked to pay more attention to this?  Can the penalty be increased other than just a stop and go?

 

Pass the car and forget about it!

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On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 1:25 PM, Ron_e said:

 

I think it would be pretty tough for a corner worker to notice fuel spray.

 

 

Our Fox does not leak, never been flagged for it either.

 

I can't speak for corner workers but as a trackside photographer, in general its readily visible, even without the camera to my eye. But you have to be looking too.

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6 hours ago, Snake said:

I call it in every time I see it but I've never seen anything done about it. 

I can say I have seen several black flags for fuel/liquid spillage (including myself), while racing and also while helping CC. They can't get everyone, but they do try with the number of staff they have.

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