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Are there any Chump cars that also qualify for other series?


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I know it used to be an issue but a lot of the old AIIV 500 dollar limit etc stuff seems to have loosened to be replaced with the PI values and 2x rule.

 

Are there classes in SCCA and or NASA that your chumpcar can also run in (depending on make)

 

I know you can kind of step up to WRL or AER (if you consider it a step up at least in terms of the amount of dollars being spent on cars)

 

Like I know E30s and E36s are really popular is that because they can also run other places or just because they are proven?

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I know some have "crossed over" from LeMons and back, one of the cars I have driven has done AER events, and my truck is ex-SCCA, so I'm sure there is some crossover.  I am not as familiar with NASA, but again, given the proper prep, there is likely and easy path between different sanctioning bodies.  What typically happens is the slight differences in rules will render a car less competitive in a crossover series unless adjustments are made. 

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30 minutes ago, Jaynen said:

Has Lemons backed off the "need to have a silly theme" elements?

But, it has not backed off the BS way of running an event and penalties! Black flags for EVERYTHING, and no specified time of penalty. When they feel like letting you back on, you go. I raced a front engine rear drive car (944) for the 1st time at Thompson couple weeks before the Chump event. I spun the car, braking- trying to avoid contact. I spun on track, had no contact and did not drop a wheel. I had about a 20min or so penalty! We had about 1hr in penalties, which had no contact with anyone or anything! I raced my 1st ever event with Lemons as wheel to wheel and road racing in general. I loved it and it got me into road racing. Now that I have become a better driver and I am very competitive,  I will not race another Lemons event! Not even for free!! 

 

1 hour ago, Jaynen said:

I know it used to be an issue but a lot of the old AIIV 500 dollar limit etc stuff seems to have loosened to be replaced with the PI values and 2x rule.

 

Are there classes in SCCA and or NASA that your chumpcar can also run in (depending on make)

 

I know you can kind of step up to WRL or AER (if you consider it a step up at least in terms of the amount of dollars being spent on cars)

 

Like I know E30s and E36s are really popular is that because they can also run other places or just because they are proven?

 

We run Chump and AER. There are certainly a LOT of great drivers in Chump! But, the overall level of driver and awareness is higher in AER. But it is meant to be that way- with a minimum of like 5 wheel to wheel races or a racing license from an accepted sanctioning body.

 

The cars in AER range from some E30 or my CR-X that are not the most clean cars (maybe $10k or under invested), to cars that are around $100k, all on track together.

 

There are ZERO restrictions on build for AER, so if you build a car for Chump, and it is a good well built car- you should be good to go for AER!

 

2 different series. Great groups of people on both sides! I personally LOVE the qualifying for class, and grid positions to start the race.

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1 hour ago, djsteviec said:

But, it has not backed off the BS way of running an event and penalties! Black flags for EVERYTHING, and no specified time of penalty. When they feel like letting you back on, you go. I raced a front engine rear drive car (944) for the 1st time at Thompson couple weeks before the Chump event. I spun the car, braking- trying to avoid contact. I spun on track, had no contact and did not drop a wheel. I had about a 20min or so penalty! We had about 1hr in penalties, which had no contact with anyone or anything! I raced my 1st ever event with Lemons as wheel to wheel and road racing in general. I loved it and it got me into road racing. Now that I have become a better driver and I am very competitive,  I will not race another Lemons event! Not even for free!! 

 

 

We run Chump and AER. There are certainly a LOT of great drivers in Chump! But, the overall level of driver and awareness is higher in AER. But it is meant to be that way- with a minimum of like 5 wheel to wheel races or a racing license from an accepted sanctioning body.

 

The cars in AER range from some E30 or my CR-X that are not the most clean cars (maybe $10k or under invested), to cars that are around $100k, all on track together.

 

There are ZERO restrictions on build for AER, so if you build a car for Chump, and it is a good well built car- you should be good to go for AER!

 

2 different series. Great groups of people on both sides! I personally LOVE the qualifying for class, and grid positions to start the race.

You argued or gave excuses, d idnt you....

 

In lemons, if you run a clean race, you are rewarded with a high finishing position.  It teaches you how to endurance race with a bazillion other cars on track for a full endurance race.

 

Our car was a race winning car in lemons and chump until this past winter.  We would probably have a handful of penalty laps in lemons now.

 

Never did do a theme.

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2 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

You argued or gave excuses, d idnt you....

 

In lemons, if you run a clean race, you are rewarded with a high finishing position.  It teaches you how to endurance race with a bazillion other cars on track for a full endurance race.

 

Our car was a race winning car in lemons and chump until this past winter.  We would probably have a handful of penalty laps in lemons now.

 

Never did do a theme.

I don't think I argued particularly. But, i don't shut up. LOL :lol:  It is just not all about the racing with Lemons. I am way to competitive to just go out and then get slammed for BS. I just want to race! Whether I know I will be last or think I can podium- I always race to win!

 

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2 hours ago, djsteviec said:

But, it has not backed off the BS way of running an event and penalties! Black flags for EVERYTHING, and no specified time of penalty. When they feel like letting you back on, you go. I raced a front engine rear drive car (944) for the 1st time at Thompson couple weeks before the Chump event. I spun the car, braking- trying to avoid contact. I spun on track, had no contact and did not drop a wheel. I had about a 20min or so penalty! We had about 1hr in penalties, which had no contact with anyone or anything! I raced my 1st ever event with Lemons as wheel to wheel and road racing in general. I loved it and it got me into road racing. Now that I have become a better driver and I am very competitive,  I will not race another Lemons event! Not even for free!! 

 

 

 

They do still black flag for EVERYTHING.  I was all by myself at turn 1 at CMP and tried to late brake to see how deep I could go, and just did a small pirouette staying on track (car doesn't like trail braking, lol), I brought myself in and he asked me what for, I told him and he scolded me like I was a child.  I sucked it up thinking that he was kind of a douche, but in reality it's his game and I still was having fun.  

Cars are cheaper to rent there too (at least from my experience)!!

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Take Lemons for what it is - a social event where you get some track time and W-2-W experience. It's where many of us got our start in W-2-W racing and it attracts amazing fields. "Winning" has absolutely nothing to do with completing the most laps since IOE is the grand prize at each race and is quite subjective. Go for the people, stay for the track experience and race-craft. 

 

My Supra has done Lemons, Chump, WRL, and SCCA bracket enduro. I had it teched for SCCA sprint races last year and would run in the ITX/ITEZ class because the mods don't fit anything in their rule book. I just can't get excited about spending a lot of $$ to race for 20 minutes. 

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We've run lots of Chump and one WRL race. With WRL most 6cyl Chump cars seem to fall into GP2 and the 4cyl cars in GP3. At Barber a few weeks ago we battled with a handful of CCWS teams (Burningham, Basil Weenie, E Racing, etc) all weekend and found the podium both days. Burningham won both days in GP2 and actually finished first overall on Saturday due to attrition of the faster cars (yes, a Chumpy sc300 beat a world challenge mustang and LS3 350z).

 

It seems to us that with a decent reliable car and good driving/strategy you can be competitive almost anywhere. We even noticed ourselves and a few other chump teams were completing faster stops than a lot of the WRL regulars that are used to no pit stop timers. I think us chumps surprised more than a few people...

Edited by gr1vlet
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13 hours ago, Jaynen said:

Has Lemons backed off the "need to have a silly theme" elements?

we don't have a silly theme, pay the fee show up and race. To the question asked. yes and no. Your car will have to pass "tech" according to each league. Some leagues require a license from that league, some transfer. AER only requires you have raced in 5 Chump/LeMons events OR a SCCA license. I do know that NJMP does NOT allow Chump/LeMons cars in some of there "open track" events.  If you are going to run one of those you better bring a fast car...NASA "American Iron" cars for example are all out fast race cars.

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Folks have covered SCCA and NASA; this is the best data I could find on ICSCC classes up here in PNW:

 

http://www.teamcontinental.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ICSCC_Race_Classes.pdf

 

Best guess is: Stuff in Group 2, the IP bloc in Group 5, and the minimal-upgrade stuff like AS would fit. (I'm going by a comparison of lap times between CC events in PNW, and ICSCC events; the upper limit appears to be ~43 seconds per mile of track.)

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The issue here is that we as chumpcars can cross over to other series, but can they cross over to our series? The answer is usually no unless you we say, hey, you need to go to EC and we know how we feel about ec cars. 

 

My good friend who has raced with me for 4-5 years in CC and has about 25 races with me since 2010 got his own car and runs AER. He can not cross over to CC, but it can run AER, Lemons, NASA, ETC. He runs like a 2:21 FTD on WGI and has an older acura with a swap. It came with an alum rad, trans cooler, oil cooler and accusump. He would get like 5-7 laps if he came to CC. I asked why he would not just take those items off and he said he does not have a lot of money now with his job and life costs to buy another engine if one fails or the time to put one in with work, wife, new kid, ect. That does make sense to me and I would not either in his situation. The so called "free" items have nothing to do with performance and does have to do with making the car last and the entire reason he will take them off. I am sure this is not an isolated incident either.

 

The point is we have rules that prohibit people coming from others series, but it sure is nice when we can go to their series and race. I know when the other series make rules they look at our rules and what we do. Then they say amazing, great, come race with us and we are all good. I bet they also like that their racers can not just jump over to CC and I bet they are drinking beers and laughing to themselves about tit.  Does not seem right to me and I have been making this point for years and years on deaf ears.

 

Also- going through tech at NASA they saw the accusump and said thank you to me for having it. I was like,  whatttttt and asked why is that. They said they like to see it as it saves engines, which is much safer as no oil on track and less time the EV people have to be on track, plus if oil is down the track is yellow or red flagged and that is time away from everyone racing. I was blown away with this good attitude towards is and I guess I am so used to our attitude of punishing people for having items that make a car finish a race.

 

My point is here, who does it to hurt to have free items that make a car last longer. Examples here.

 

Radiator? alum ebay costs $89 and Toyota one costs $440. I do not have issues with overheating and the stock Toyota is fine, why do I have to pay more for one. Now if the alum ebay $89 did work better and help with overheating and did make my car last, why is that bad? A car that finishes a race can come back to race again.

 

Accusump- Adds weight so a car is slower with it for sure. Saves the engine and oil on the track so from a safety point of view it is a must. 

 

Oil cooler- can save an engine

 

Trans cooler- Can save a trans

 

Diff cooler- can save a diff.

 

All of these items saved means racers are racing. Means people will come back with complete cars. Means people can spend money on more races instead of fixing the car, yet again. Means people are happy. Means more cars at races and we can have more races.

 

If someone can show me a downside to promoting having items on your car that will make it last, please, pretty please, let me know why because I can only thing of one reason to say no and that is this. "My car does not need it now so I do not want others to have it and finish a race so that I have a better chance of winning." If that is the only reason that is very sad to me.

 

I also think we might not want to change the rules on this because it is the old attitude "Well that is the way it is so that is the way it needs to stay! No changes to anything ever!" I have that friend, or former friend, and he still races lemons with a terrible attitude and stuck in the past. I hope we are not that organization.

 

Sorry for my rant, I am just passionate about this subject as I am a logical person and this does not make sense to me.

 

If you read all of this, thanks, hope you enjoyed it.

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24 gallons allowed for any car in LeMons and LDRL.  LeMons and LDRL have big car counts in the NW, ChumpCar does not.

 

Is the difference because of the free items, non-free items, 4 pages in the rules explaining valuation, fuel capacity, the ex-John factor?

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Easy rule change for Chump: fuel cell capacity limited to one gallon per 150 lbs of race weight.

 

Why that number? Because it matches what Chump has decided is their golden standard car, the E36.

 

Won't happen because:

50 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

"My car does not need it now so I do not want others to have it and finish a race so that I have a better chance of winning."

"Well that is the way it is so that is the way it needs to stay! No changes to anything ever!"

And: "It's too hard to enforce/weigh cars at the track."

 

Really?

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