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Driveshaft accounting...


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Well, I may have been cheating.  Sort of...

 

I have lots of points to play with before I get to 500 pts....  So, I may have just not been doing my accounting correctly...

 

I swapped out my stock engine AND transmission for some other parts.

 

However, I have not accounted for a driveshaft anywhere except within the $1500.00 that a swap is allowed to total.

 

 

Obviously, a driveshaft would be required for this trans and engine swap.  Do I need to count the 50 pts for a non OE driveshaft?  Or is it included in the swap of the trans or engine swap?  The driveshaft IS actually OE.  It is from a C4 corvette with a dodge truck rear yoke using a stock type u-joint....  It isn't even cut down or lengthened.  It fits just like that!

 

Any clarification is appreciated!

 

Rob R.

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My take is that you have the option of claiming it inside your swap math (in the 1500) as a part "required" for the swap...  the same way you would have to claim the flywheel or clutch or slave if different than OE to your car)...  OR  you have the option to claim it outside your swap math as points...   OR you have to modify the OE part to claim it as "free".

 

Just like the engine header example...   if your OE header doesnt fit; and neither does the one for the engine you are swapping in;  you can either "make one of the OE parts fit", claim it in the swap costs (but only if its undeniably "required"), or claim it as a FPV.

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We actually have the headers in the $1500.00  The FWD engine exhaust would be sitting in the drivers compartment if we tried to use it.

 

So far, I am understanding that if it can be accounted for in the 1500, then I don't need to claim it separately.

 

 

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From my understanding you can count anything that is needed to make the swap work within the $1500. Here is why I have a problem because people can add poly motor mounts, transmission mounts, non-OE driveshafts etc for only 50 points to their TCV where as someone who has a stock motor and wants to do all of that has to take the points and will exceed 50 points. 

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15 minutes ago, Crank Yankers Racing said:

From my understanding you can count anything that is needed to make the swap work within the $1500. Here is why I have a problem because people can add poly motor mounts, transmission mounts, non-OE driveshafts etc for only 50 points to their TCV where as someone who has a stock motor and wants to do all of that has to take the points and will exceed 50 points. 

I suppose there are 50 point  swaps, but if your adding hp your swap is more than 50 Pts.  Ours is anyway.   

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For example in the platform I run:

 

If we use the e36 motor that is a 55 point increase to the VPI but you could then add in better motor mounts which are poly.  Instead of it being at 515 points it is only at 505 points which helps with reliability since the stock rubber mounts like to wear out pretty easily.  So they get a free 10 points and only take 1 lap instead of 2 because it falls under the $1500 rule within the swap.

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Is a driveshaft still a value add part? Been so long since I've had to look at swap stuff I forget.

 

IMHO one of those grey areas, you are already claiming a swap, does this driveshaft give you a performance advantage over OEM? Is it stronger or of lighter materials? If not and since it is a literal bone-yard piece, I can't see anyone giving you a hard time about it. No performance advantage other than getting power from your swapped motor to the rear end. If it was carbon fiber/aluminum or fixing some inherent problem with the old one, then I could see an argument that it's an "upgrade". 

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38 minutes ago, Crank Yankers Racing said:

From my understanding you can count anything that is needed to make the swap work within the $1500. Here is why I have a problem because people can add poly motor mounts, transmission mounts, non-OE driveshafts etc for only 50 points to their TCV where as someone who has a stock motor and wants to do all of that has to take the points and will exceed 50 points. 

 

To me, that sounds like rules lawyering and beyond the intent of the swap rule, but what do I know. 

 

Just out of curiosity, why are poly motor mounts still 50 points anyways? Seems ridiculous now that we can run Wilwood calipers on the cheap and poly bushings everywhere else.  

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1 minute ago, pintodave said:

 

Just out of curiosity, why are poly motor mounts still 50 points anyways? Seems ridiculous now that we can run Wilwood calipers on the cheap and poly bushings everywhere else.  

They are only 10 points.  I'm stating in the case where you get more HP and then free poly motor mounts, maybe a better driveshaft, some hardened transmission mounts, some headers because the stock ones don't fit potentially all for 50 to 60 points because it all falls under the $1500 swap rule.

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1 hour ago, Crank Yankers Racing said:

From my understanding you can count anything that is needed to make the swap work within the $1500. Here is why I have a problem because people can add poly motor mounts, transmission mounts, non-OE driveshafts etc for only 50 points to their TCV where as someone who has a stock motor and wants to do all of that has to take the points and will exceed 50 points. 

 

You can add the non-OE engine mounts but you have to prove that the stock ones would not work.  I don't know about the driveshaft as I thought the $1500 just had to do with the engine swap and the driveshaft would be specific to the transmission swap.

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I'm a bit surprised by the replies on here that "things can be lumped into the $1500 allowance".

 

I read the rules a LOT more explicitly than y'all are:

 

Quote

Engine swaps include stock long block, stock exhaust manifolds, stock induction system, motor mounts, starter, ECU, wiring, and transmission adapters.

 

That's it.  Paying special attention to the wording here, it means you can do whatever the hell you want to with motor mounts, starter, ECU, wiring, and transmission adapters.  Anything else is value-add, IMO.  We're looking into other swaps on the Integra that require axle swaps, and you better believe we'll take the $25 hit for them if we do.

 

Would you be protested for a driveshaft not claimed?  Probably never.  Doesn't mean that it's not cheating, if you read the rules the way I do.

Edited by whitney
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8 hours ago, Ron_e said:

 

You can add the non-OE engine mounts but you have to prove that the stock ones would not work.

 

That's not what the rules say.  Motor mounts are "included" with the swap, ie free.  There is no word "stock" in there regarding motor mounts.  I had to read that sentence in the rule book 100 times before I was confident what it implied :) 

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Engine swaps include motor mounts, meaning the ones that came with the engine.   If they do not fit you frame then you can change them out without adding points.  If you also chose to upgrade to poly mounts then I would hope it would add points.  

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11 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

Engine swaps include motor mounts, meaning the ones that came with the engine.   If they do not fit you frame then you can change them out without adding points.  If you also chose to upgrade to poly mounts then I would hope it would add points.  

 

Engine swaps include

 

stock long block

stock exhaust manifolds

stock induction system

motor mounts

starter

ECU

wiring

transmission adapters

 

Things without the word "stock" in front of them are unrestricted within the $1500 budget from what I understand.  I checked this, in a roundabout fashion, with Phil.

 

If you have other information from him I would love to hear it.

 

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