bbaker480 Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Like the title says I need to convert my rear from 4x110 to 5x114.3 to match the hubs up front now that everything has been swapped. This allows both of our cars to share wheels as well as open my car up to a wider selection of wheels in general (to the best of my knowledge there are no alloy wheels in a 110x4 being made right now). I'm fairly sure I will need a two piece adapter, which should be fine assuming the hardware is all up to par, but I can't find any off the shelf when I search. Does anyone have a guy they use for custom adapters like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex3000 Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 14 minutes ago, bbaker480 said: Like the title says I need to convert my rear from 4x110 to 5x114.3 to match the hubs up front now that everything has been swapped. This allows both of our cars to share wheels as well as open my car up to a wider selection of wheels in general (to the best of my knowledge there are no alloy wheels in a 110x4 being made right now). I'm fairly sure I will need a two piece adapter, which should be fine assuming the hardware is all up to par, but I can't find any off the shelf when I search. Does anyone have a guy they use for custom adapters like this? Not to be that guy, but this has got to be covered to death on rx7club.com. The 4x110 bolt pattern is easily the most commonly griped upon issue plaguing the first gens. I know you mentioned it in your other thread but you decided against drilling your axles? This may end up being your best solution, long term. (also cheapest) Also, and I don't know the full details of your project, wouldn't you need an adapter that goes between the brake and hub? That would be if you were going to upgrade the rear brakes. Maybe you are staying with stock first gen rears and second gen 4 piston fronts... If you have a CAD drawing or some sort of technical document you can post it up to the forum in The Practical Machinist forum. People will give you quotes to machine your part. Keep in mind, they will ask material, tolerances, etc, so you have to know the language a bit. I got spacers made this way by a super nice guy in Maine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 I designed and machined my own adapters, but I had much different goals than you do. I wanted to be able to use Miata wheels since there are so many light and cheap wheels available for them. going from a 4X110 to a 4X100 was a piece of cake, the problem going from 4 to 5 lug is that you always have a couple of the holes wanting to occupy the same space no matter how you orient them. A 2 piece adapter that would have an inner piece that bolted to the 4X110 axle and an outer piece with the 5X114.3 studs which would be bolted together with some third magical pattern that would clear both sets of holes seems pretty sketchy to me. Unless you made at least the inner piece out of steel you would have be screwing into aluminum and both pieces would be pretty swiss cheesed with lots of holes. Another thing to worry about is offset. Since I was using Miata wheels with a deep offset I needed thick spacers anyway to clear the struts in the front. In the back I had room to tuck the wheels in so I made the rear adapters as thin as I was comfortable which turned out to be 20mm. If you made a 2 piece adapter you would be looking at a 40mm of total spacer. I assume that the wheels you want to use with your second gen front subframe are near zero offset so you would end up with the rear wheels sticking way out. Your best option is to get the 5 lug pattern in your axles. Moser may be able to supply axles but they won’t be cheap, or you could get the existing holes welded up and new ones drilled. Either way that would be much easier than trying to do something with a wheel adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Couple of points... 1) I don't know what a 2 piece adapter would be. 2) https://www.adapterkings.com/cart/ (They make 4 to 5 lug adapters at around $250.00 for a pair) 3) Axle does not have enough "meat" on it to go to 5 x 114.3. I realize that it should only be 2 mm towards the outside, but it seems sketchy. Would need to change the rearend to the big bearing GSL SE axle to have sufficient mounting surface. Custom axles are a possibility. Im thinking of making an adapter and bolting and welding it onto the existing axles.... P.S. RX7lub covers this to death because nobody has a solution. I have been researching this for weeks. Closest I got was somebody going from 4 x 110 to 5 x 108. A few people have gone to 4 x 114.3 and a few have gone to 4 x 100. Nobody, that I am aware of, has gone to 5 x 114.3 without using the ReSpeed kit (which is no longer available) and used Moser axles at something like $300.00 for the set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 In order to get a proper pilot for second gen rotors on first gen axles you need to increase the OD of the axle flange. My first go around we used laser cut rings tack welded to the backside of the axle flange, now I use aluminum stepped spacers that fit between the rotors and axle flanges. If you did a stepped spacer made out of steel you could weld it to the axle flange, you could weld it on the backside where it fit over the stock axle and weld it around the ID of the spacer, that way it would be very robust. If I was doing it I would do all the welding then true up the face on a lathe, then you would have a nice high quality surface to drill to any bolt pattern that you want. You could keep it down to15-20mm thick or even less and not have too much of an offset problem. The weld on adapter would look similar to the green piece in the model below. I have to run but I have a model of an axle flange and when I get back next week I can design something and send some drawings that you can use to get some weld on adapters made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedMaverick Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 http://www.petepaulsen.com/contact.html These guys have made my wheels for decades. Pete used to sponsor me out in CA when I ran Altamont and All American Speedway. He was a racer himself so he knows his stuff. They use steel aftermarket centers and weld them into the size rim with whatever offset you want that is reasonable for the available parts. He even made me a set of custom offset wheels for my trailer one time. I'm building a teardrop trailer and Pete will supply the old school wheels for it. Most wheels are less than $100. I need 4/100 15 x 8 for next season and I haven't talked to him yet, but I know of a couple circle track Honda's that used his stuff. But that was 20 years ago. So I will be calling him here pretty quick. Pete is as old school as it gets. What I saw online was the wheels will be around 18#. I am only suggesting this because you stated that you couldn't find 4/100 wheels and that was half the reason for considering adapters. Hope this helps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 4 x 110. Truly an odd pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmabarone Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 This thread is relevant to my interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbaker480 Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Looking at the price of adapters/custom axles it seems like we might for now be just as far ahead to get a set of Diamond Pro Series 15x8 made up with the 4x110 for the rear until we decide what to do in terms of an axle swap or IRS someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmabarone Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Ford 7.5" from a Ranger + trac-lok from a Thunderbird Turbo coupe. 1.5" wider axle and you can easily put on disk brakes from a Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Here is how I would do it. Machine a spacer from steel that would slip over the axle flange and that has the correct OD to pilot the second gen rear brake rotor. Turns out there are a lot of holes on the flange of a stock first gen axle, I would fill all of them up with weld so you can later drill your 5 bolt pattern wherever you want it. Once you have welded the spacer onto the axle you can machine the face flat and true to the axle, then drill your 5 bolt pattern. It would be easier to use screw in m12 studs instead of press in studs, if you wanted to use the press in studs you would need to machine the back side of the axle flange to give the press in studs a flat surface to sit on. Here is a drawing of what the adapter would need to look like, the 132.5 diameter is what I measured on the axles that I have but I would recommend that you measure your axles and make it as tight of a fit as possible . I have also included the X Y coordinates for the 5X114.3 bolt pattern to make it easier to drill the holes in a standard mill without having to try to index the part 72⁰ for each hole. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Wow, that is awesome! Thanks soo much! I think I can get one of my guys to make the plates, I will weld everything up, then we will get a machine shop to drill and face. Perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) Shoot me an email and I will send you a PDF of the drawing that you can print out and give to the machine shop guys. never mind, looks like I can attach it here rear_disk_spacer.pdf Edited October 3, 2017 by mhr650 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbaker480 Posted October 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, mhr650 said: Shoot me an email and I will send you a PDF of the drawing that you can print out and give to the machine shop guys. never mind, looks like I can attach it here rear_disk_spacer.pdf Thanks! These seem like an ideal solution for the current situation. Little by little this car is basically becoming an S4..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 650, Have you run these axles? Welding the axle ends de-tempers/crystallizes, the steel and often break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbjohnk Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 AdaptitUSA.com claims they will custom make 4 lug to 5 lug converters. Based on Mark's drawings above they may not be able to do the 110 to 114, but it is worth asking. If they will do it, I am sure they will be fine. They make very high quality adapters that I have raced on my RX7 (4x110 to 4x100) for a long time without any problems at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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