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Pump fuel thoughts. ?


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 I'm  Pretty sure that in the best interest of CC, we dont want to open the race fuel barn door.   Some ideas for enforcing a 93 octane  rule? 

 1) Start with a 93 pump gas rule. 

 If anyone suspects race gas is being used , swap some jugs among the pits for a couple of stops. 

 What else, and how hard do we want to enforce this?  

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What is the definition of pump gas?

 

California doesn't sell 93 octane fuel at regular stations.

 

93 Octane ethanol blend contains 7% less energy than 93 pure gasoline.  We run 93 no ethanol.

 

How would you police a team mixing 91 and 100 Octane Low Lead?

 

The way this is policed in the upper series is by using a single fuel vendor and all fuel is provided at the race venue.  

 

Ryan

Edited by reidry
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The rule wouldn't read "pump gas".  The rule proposed would have to be a octane limiting rule.   I submitted a petition back in July.   Mike responded and ask for ideas on enforcement as a follow up.   I gave him some ideas and products to look into for enforcement as well.   I'm sure this will be a topic at the next BOD meeting. 

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My questions are well intended, I clearly understand the "race gas" door of which Mike is speaking.  With open ECUs we don't want speed creep advancing at an increasing pace.

 

Just need to be sure we are working from a common understanding.  Would you consider posting a proposed rule?

 

Ryan

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19 minutes ago, cagedruss said:

Great. Go ahead. I totally cool with it if your fuel budget can afford. If your is that cheap you probably need the power.

 

I'm not saying I am going to or want to.  I'm just saying it is possible with the points available whereas you said it would not be a legal engine.

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2 minutes ago, cagedruss said:

Speed creep? Does Mike want to limit the speed now? Teams get better with car set up, driving skills, tweaking power. Don't get it. 

 

There is natural speed creep, then there is speed associated with a big turbo, open ECU and 110 octane race fuel.  

 

I'd bet there is a team building one for next season.

 

Ryan

Edited by reidry
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1 minute ago, reidry said:

 

There is natural speed creep, then there is speed associated with a big turbo, open ECU and 110 octane race fuel.  

 

Ryan

 

Don't forget that a turbo has to come from a vehicle on the VPI list. you can't just select any turbo.

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1 minute ago, Ron_e said:

 

What, a big turbo?  I'm just saying it is not unlimited.  

 

Definitely not unlimited, but one could scrounge the VPI list for a big turbo and pop it in a Miata, there is a whole class of these little beasties being developed in the SCCA STU class.

 

Ryan

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1 hour ago, red0 said:

A jug swap is a horrible idea. I'm not blowing my car up because someone didn't clean their jugs. Also, lots of people run 87 octane and other cars run 93. 

 

Random thoughts not aimed @ you

 

Are there that many non rotary folks using less then the max octane @ the quickie mart?

 

One could simply ask the jug swapping members what they run, where would there be benefit for anyone giving improper answers?

 

The only people that fear this are those that need more then 93

 

Not sure about everyone else but our factory knock control system will compensate, pull timing and not kill itself.

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Would E85 or a blend of E85 and 93 octane be considered "pump gas"?  I'm going to need help burning 22 gallons of fuel in 2 hours. :ph34r:  I can also get Turbo Blue 110 octane from a pump 5 minutes from my house. 

 

I subscribe to the idea that if you can't enforce a rule, then don't make the rule.  All it will do is allow the "cheaters" to gain a further advantage over those following the rule to the letter.  Like some people have already said, if you want to triple your cost for fuel over a race weekend, go for it.  In some cases you can lose power going to a higher octane fuel.  Unless you're running 14:1 compression pistons or a turbo, I don't see it helping you very much over 93 octane.  Maybe you could gain some fuel economy by running it leaner.  If you do want to use race gas with your turbo car, you are going to use ridiculous amount of fuel and need a ridiculous amount of cooling.  I think E85 should be allowed since the ~30% fuel you will burn over gas makes up for any power gains you see.  It will also help your engine run much cooler.  I haven't seen anyone run it yet in a Chumpcar race though...

 

Obligatory hot rod mag link:

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0901phr-difference-between-pump-race-gas/

 

 

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1 minute ago, Scribe said:

 

Would E85 or a blend of E85 and 93 octane be considered "pump gas"?

 

Yes it would, this would need addressed, perhaps if this "movement" gained traction it would encourage folks to tune for this.

 

Am I the only one in a major town that only has access to 3 grades of fuel locally?

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10 hours ago, reidry said:

 

Just need to be sure we are working from a common understanding.  Would you consider posting a proposed rule?

 

Ryan

Pretty simple. 

 

 The octane level to be used for any competing car in the series is limited to 93 octane and lower.   The use of any fuel additives are also prohibited.  Fuel additive is defined by ANYTHING you pour or mix in with 93 and lower fuel.  

 

Yes, there are testing kits, I have sent 3 to Mike 

Edited by Snake
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1 minute ago, Snake said:

Pretty simple. 

 

 The octane level to be used for any competing car in the series is limited to 93 octane and lower.   The use of any fuel additives are also prohibited.  Fuel additive is defined by ANYTHING you pour or mix in with 93 and lower fuel.  

What about premix for rotaries?  

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