SpeedMaverick Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 I just got off of the phone with Steve at Pyrotect and he told me about a refueling tower that they will be demonstrating at the Lucky Dog race this weekend. It is 20 gal capacity. It is a collapsible bladder which reduces the chance static of ignition. It is on a scissor lift that raises to about about 6' tall. It can be filled at the trailer and rolled to the hot pit and raised in place. It has a dead man safety at the tower and a gas station style nozzle with dead man release. So it takes 2 people to release flow. This reduces over fill spillage. It has optional accessories like a fuel flow meter for accurate fuel consumption readings . It has a bottom up filler that will hook directly to a hand pump for refilling without spills. A completely sealed process from a drum. Faster fill ups, allowing more time for safer driver changes and GREATLY reduces spills and thus fires according to Steve. The thing is full of anti spill safety features including an anti spill flapper if the top is open and the unit is knocked over. Last but not least is that it will fold into a flat unit that takes up little space in the trailer. But the one thing that is a set back for many racers is the price tag. The base unit will start around $1000 plus any options. But think about the cost of spills including the ruining of safety equipment. I think this could bring value in the long run. I will say, that after talking about this rig for the better part of 10-15 minutes, I am convinced that we should consider allowing it here in Chumpcar. I really see it a a safer way to refuel cars and reduce spills which is costly. Just thinking about the difference between dropping a gas hose with an auto shutoff vs an open fuel jug presents a considerably different set of potential results. Steve said he will provide some video of the unit in use as soon as he has it ready. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drgchapman Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 I got familiar with the rig at the LD ORP race last month. It will reduce spills tremendously, if employed. That being said, after racing Lemons, LD and Chump for 5 years now, I have yet to see an issue with fuel spills. Not to say it can't happen..... I learned another tidbit from Steve: PVC fittings on fuel jug hoses are prone to storing static electricity and can spark, igniting the fuel jug and person holding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 When fuel rigs were allowed for the SCCA 12 hr races, the races ended due to lack of entries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee hornerevan Posted October 12, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Yeah this isn't a brand new concept by any means. But in every occasion where these were allowed in a Pro-Am or amateur racing series, it resulted in spending-creep that ultimately drove participants away. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 How many static ignitions have there been in 24HoL, CCWS, AER, WRL and LDR combined over the last decade? The number of 5gal fuel jugs (most modified with PVC fittings) has to be in the thousands, the number of fills during racing situations in the tens of thousands and I'm not aware of a single instance. In fact, the only significant fueling fire I'm aware of was the one at Daytona a few years ago which was cause by fuel dripping onto a hot rear brake disc. Honestly, considering the number of jugs, fills and amateurs doing the filling....thats a heckuva good safety record for fueling. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorman Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 What's next...dry breaks? S. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmabarone Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Allowing fuel rigs is a bad idea. Keep the rule how it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csadn Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 *NO*. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead_42 Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 3 hours ago, drgchapman said: I learned another tidbit from Steve: PVC fittings on fuel jug hoses are prone to storing static electricity and can spark, igniting the fuel jug and person holding it. That's part of why i use nylon for the fittings and clamps. Nylon is also more fuel and ethanol resistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 5 hours ago, csadn said: *NO*. I was just going to go find that pic. Is dry ice legal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig71188 Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 We raced the old Playboy/Escort series where "overhead rigs" were allowed (ATL made a bladder style rig then). Many folks made rigs from fuel drums, dead man valves and fuel nozzles were required. Things still go wrong!! Valves fail, fittings fail - you haven't seen a fuel spill until you see one of those rigs dump 20-30 gallons of fuel into pit lane. Our "worse case" is 5 gallons gets spilled. I still have a real nice dry break set up in the attic - great system, expensive and has the ability to spray fuel a pretty good distance when engaging/disengaging if not done right. I think our system works pretty well. I will say I am not a big fan of the "dump fuel into a big funnel method" that some employ, but that's just me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorman Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, craig71188 said: I think our system works pretty well. I will say I am not a big fan of the "dump fuel into a big funnel method" that some employ, but that's just me. There was discussion about this at the BoD meeting at Daytona in April. I 100% agree. I do not agree with letting teams use giant funnels and pour open fuel into them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 hours ago, craig71188 said: I think our system works pretty well. I will say I am not a big fan of the "dump fuel into a big funnel method" that some employ, but that's just me. As always, it depends on the people and set-up more than the method. I use the "dump fuel into a big funnel method" and have spilled less fuel in all our time in chump (about a cup) than some teams do in one race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csadn Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 18 hours ago, Bandit said: I was just going to go find that pic. Is dry ice legal? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Ray Franck Posted October 13, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 My team uses the funnel method , but it's a slick little trick and only holds about a quart , and we spill very little if any . I have witnessed spills from all ways of filling from cup on down but having 100+ twenty gallon fuel rigs over head well just think about it .. NOOOOOO !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 42 minutes ago, csadn said: Wouldn't think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyk Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 Have you attended a Chumpcar race, I thought I saw a post that RA will be your first race attending? I have yet to see a fire from fueling, it's safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted October 14, 2017 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 On October 12, 2017 at 3:13 PM, SpeedMaverick said: What do you think? I think that some of you new guys that are coming on the forum and proposing all these changes really need to just come out to a few races and figure out what this is all about before you try to change it 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtired Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 40 minutes ago, mcoppola said: I think that some of you new guys that are coming on the forum and proposing all these changes really need to just come out to a few races and figure out what this is all about before you try to change it Nah, ya think? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 As a team that uses a funnel, like any random fuel method, it's all about knowing what the heck you are doing, ask the outgoing driver about the current fuel level and decide how many jugs get "free dumped" vs being careful/having a finishing jug that fuels slower without using the funnel. All a "safer" fuel rig will supply is a huge quantity of fuel if/when there is a miscalculation or a mishap. Oh I would rather spend that 1k fuel rig opening price on tires, brakes and actual fuel, not every team has deep pockets, everyone, lets try to keep the spending creep as slow/gradual as possible, ChumpCar started as fun for the little guy! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtired Posted October 15, 2017 Report Share Posted October 15, 2017 Ed is in fact the definition of "the little guy".... 53 inches tall on a sunny day. 😎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted October 15, 2017 Report Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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