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RVA Graphics Eastern Chumpionship


DuncanDana
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So...

Our "MR2 group" just spent the past 3 hours discussing the modification of this part and the impact on the performance of a certain part.

This is what we do with MR2s. Every nut and bolt on the chassis has been discussed multiple times over the past eight years. 




Screen Shot 2017-11-05 at 10.55.20 AM.png

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16 hours ago, Huggy said:

We finished the last 3 races with no front brakes, because we are heavily leaning on them for making passes.  Do we get a VPI reduction because of that?

We were involved in an incident at the VIR24 due to taking a risky pass. Do we get a VPI reduction because of that?

#E30 #TheStruggleIsReal 

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25 minutes ago, bendawson3 said:

I don’t know about all this car value talk and stuff, but here’s the most fun part of the race for me in @revvhappy‘s Supra. It’s an AMAZING car to drive. So much fun in the rain, too:

 

 

Now that's what I'm talkin' about! I personally can't see a thing because I have the camera's perspective, so I'm impressed you are driving as fast as you can while wiping the windshield. 

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On 11/3/2017 at 10:36 AM, Scribe said:

One last point I'd like to make is that the "pro" driver who often drives the GWR car is not technically a pro.  He is rated as a silver driver by the FIA, which technically makes him an amateur.  He also does not make his living driving race cars.  He is just a very good driver that does everything he can to get more seat time and improve his racecraft.  Isn't that what all of us are trying to do?

Listen, the fact that he has an FIA rating, makes him a pro. Regardless of the ranking. There a lot of silvers who are getting paid to drive. They're no amateurs.

 

Your guy is driving a bright yellow LMP2 car in IMSA. That's pro level stuff right there.

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Let me try to put a summary together so we can go back to talking about how much fun we had at AMP:

 

1.  The "MR2 group" collaborates to increase the performance of their platform

-In my experience, so does everyone else.  E30 guys talk, Mustang guys talk, etc.  Since I'm the only person in Chumpcar building a Starion and I can't collaborate with anyone else, I guess I'm SOL on that one. (You didn't choose my car, right?)

 

2.  Lightweight cars are faster

-I'd also argue lightweight cars are more reliable assuming you aren't drilling holes in your radiator.  F=ma is a beautiful thing.  Maybe Bill wouldn't break so many hubs if his car was lighter.

 

3.  The V6 MR2 teams have to baby their cars and stay off the curbs to make it through the weekend.  They are able to win races while babying their cars.

-Randy running an average lap time of 1:33.8 (this includes in a out laps, removed two outlier laps that were over 2:20) over 143 laps at AMP is not babying a car.  If that is babying the car, how much faster could he have gone?  To give you perspective, GWR's "pro" driver averaged a 1:36.8 over 37 laps.  Randy averaged 1:37.0 over 15 laps in the GWR car.  That means Randy in the Biohazard car will lap Misha in the GWR car once every 32 laps.  Assuming the Biohazard car does not have reliability issues (which I agree is a pretty big assumption), Randy would lap Misha 15 times over a 500 lap race (The Biohazard car did 506 laps at AMP, more laps could have been completed if it didn't rain all day Saturday).  I would also like to point out that these are the cars that set the two fastest laps at the event, there were 52 not-as-fast cars that took the green flag.

 

-How many other teams can say they take it easy and can still win races?

 

4.  Most teams aren't winning because they don't take enough weight out of their cars.

-Why don't the other V6 MR2 teams that are not winning take more weight out of their cars?  They are all collaborating, right?

 

5. Pro drivers drive cars faster than not-pro drivers

-The same pro driver drove the two fastest cars at the event on the same day, under the same track conditions, and even with the same tire compound (255/40-17 RS-4's on the Bio MR2, 245/40-15 RS-4's on the GWR E30).  Randy averaged 3.2 seconds a lap slower in the E30 vs the MR2.  His fastest lap was 6.6 seconds slower in the E30 vs the MR2.

 

6. V6 MR2's can't go 2 hours at most tracks including Road America

-How many cars can go 2 hours at full pace at Road America?

 

-I remember Troy arguing in a fuel capacity thread that not running two hours can open up a lot of strategy options, which I agree with.  At the 2016 Eastern Chumpionship, the GWR team (which cannot go 2 hours on fuel) used pit strategy to claw back from 33rd after an incident halfway through Saturday to 3rd and gain about 5 laps on the Rbank civic (which can go 2 hours).  The 5 laps were made up mostly because we were able to do almost every pit stop on Saturday under yellow and Rbank did not.

 

7.  Chumpcar staff members and board members are defending the V6 MR2

-Most of these Chumpcar staff and board members also happen to be V6 MR2 stakeholders

 

8.  The V6 MR2 stakeholders get very defensive when you say their cars are too fast

-No comment

 

9.  If Troy built an E30, he would be just as fast

-Doing 1:28's at AMP in a 2300-2400 lb E30 making 155 whp (GWR's car is a ~490 point car) seems to defy the laws of physics if you ask me.  The GWR car has a 1.50 OD x 0.095 cage and does not have much weight that can come out.  It would loose 20-25 lbs if they bought some expensive wheels, and maybe 10 lbs from going to a lexan windshield.  Short of cutting the entire trunk off the car or something (where would you put the wing?), I don't think less than 2200 lbs is possible in a legal E30.  You also will struggle to get over 165 whp unless you cheat.

 

On a somewhat related note, can anyone tell me if this is light enough to be competitive in Chumpcar?

20170603_181007.thumb.jpg.af784a3d1532a9877f83649dbe6d5008.jpg20170704_210649.thumb.jpg.ea8c093f9fcd0944c03965f3f03636d3.jpg

 

Definitely have some corner weight issues to address :P

 

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6 hours ago, mindspin311 said:

Listen, the fact that he has an FIA rating, makes him a pro. Regardless of the ranking. There a lot of silvers who are getting paid to drive. They're no amateurs.

 

Your guy is driving a bright yellow LMP2 car in IMSA. That's pro level stuff right there.

Just because someone is FIA rated does make them a "pro" that's a fact peroiod.   Some silvers are getting paid we call them the super silvers,    but there are many,  many more silvers who pay the bills to drive.    Don't be fooled by the FIA ratings there absurde and everyone in pro racing knows it.   The ratings should be abolished.   I know a little about this as I am FIA rated and have been for many years.  

I don't understand why everyone has their  panties in a bunch over this.   This is endurance racing and 1 person does not win a race.  It truely is a team sport and it takes lots of luck, hard work, and drivers to put their ego in check and do what's best for the team effort.  I am so sick of hearing who turned the fastest time on a team.  I want to know how many positions did a driver improve in his stint and move up in the standings and if he stayed on track and didn't hit anyone or thing and turned the car over to the next driver with good tyres,  good brakes, and straight panels, that's a great driver.    I'll take that over the fastest guy anytime.  

It was Troy's day to win because he had fewer problems and could manage those problems better than evereyone that day.  I'd like to see the championship race at Lime Rock , talk about a great equlizer.  I can hear the bitching now.  I'm sure a another  track may have brought different  results with no rain.   

 

I would think that everyone in  Chump would be thrilled to have current racers from professional series and ex  professionals drive in Chump events.  What an opportunity to tap into that knowledge,    Be proud guys that they have discovered Chump and want to spend some time here.  

 

Look, Listen & Learn

Edited by DEE DEE
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1 hour ago, DEE DEE said:

Just because someone is FIA rated does make them a "pro" that's a fact peroiod.   Some silvers are getting paid we call them the super silvers,    but there are many,  many more silvers who pay the bills to drive.    Don't be fooled by the FIA ratings there absurde and everyone in pro racing knows it.   The ratings should be abolished.   I know a little about this as I am FIA rated and have been for many years.  

I don't understand why everyone has their  panties in a bunch over this.   This is endurance racing and 1 person does not win a race.  It truely is a team sport and it takes lots of luck, hard work, and drivers to put their ego in check and do what's best for the team effort.  I am so sick of hearing who turned the fastest time on a team.  I want to know how many positions did a driver improve in his stint and move up in the standings and if he stayed on track and didn't hit anyone or thing and turned the car over to the next driver with good tyres,  good brakes, and straight panels, that's a great driver.    I'll take that over the fastest guy anytime.  

It was Troy's day to win because he had fewer problems and could manage those problems better than evereyone that day.  I'd like to see the championship race at Lime Rock , talk about a great equlizer.  I can hear the bitching now.  I'm sure a another  track may have brought different  results with no rain.   

 

I would think that everyone in  Chump would be thrilled to have currant racers from professional series and ex  professionals drive in Chump events.  What an opportunity to tap into that knowledge,    Be proud guys that they have discovered Chump and want to spend some time here.  

 

Look, Listen & Learn

Tyres? Are you a furner?

 

Currant.... now you talking...  🤣

Edited by dogtired
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  • Technical Advisory Committee
4 hours ago, Scribe said:

Let me try to put a summary together so we can go back to talking about how much fun we had at AMP:

 

1.  The "MR2 group" collaborates to increase the performance of their platform

-In my experience, so does everyone else.  E30 guys talk, Mustang guys talk, etc.  Since I'm the only person in Chumpcar building a Starion and I can't collaborate with anyone else, I guess I'm SOL on that one. (You didn't choose my car, right?)

 

2.  Lightweight cars are faster

-I'd also argue lightweight cars are more reliable assuming you aren't drilling holes in your radiator.  F=ma is a beautiful thing.  Maybe Bill wouldn't break so many hubs if his car was lighter.

 

3.  The V6 MR2 teams have to baby their cars and stay off the curbs to make it through the weekend.  They are able to win races while babying their cars.

-Randy running an average lap time of 1:33.8 (this includes in a out laps, removed two outlier laps that were over 2:20) over 143 laps at AMP is not babying a car.  If that is babying the car, how much faster could he have gone?  To give you perspective, GWR's "pro" driver averaged a 1:36.8 over 37 laps.  Randy averaged 1:37.0 over 15 laps in the GWR car.  That means Randy in the Biohazard car will lap Misha in the GWR car once every 32 laps.  Assuming the Biohazard car does not have reliability issues (which I agree is a pretty big assumption), Randy would lap Misha 15 times over a 500 lap race (The Biohazard car did 506 laps at AMP, more laps could have been completed if it didn't rain all day Saturday).  I would also like to point out that these are the cars that set the two fastest laps at the event, there were 52 not-as-fast cars that took the green flag.

 

-How many other teams can say they take it easy and can still win races?

 

4.  Most teams aren't winning because they don't take enough weight out of their cars.

-Why don't the other V6 MR2 teams that are not winning take more weight out of their cars?  They are all collaborating, right?

 

5. Pro drivers drive cars faster than not-pro drivers

-The same pro driver drove the two fastest cars at the event on the same day, under the same track conditions, and even with the same tire compound (255/40-17 RS-4's on the Bio MR2, 245/40-15 RS-4's on the GWR E30).  Randy averaged 3.2 seconds a lap slower in the E30 vs the MR2.  His fastest lap was 6.6 seconds slower in the E30 vs the MR2.

 

6. V6 MR2's can't go 2 hours at most tracks including Road America

-How many cars can go 2 hours at full pace at Road America?

 

-I remember Troy arguing in a fuel capacity thread that not running two hours can open up a lot of strategy options, which I agree with.  At the 2016 Eastern Chumpionship, the GWR team (which cannot go 2 hours on fuel) used pit strategy to claw back from 33rd after an incident halfway through Saturday to 3rd and gain about 5 laps on the Rbank civic (which can go 2 hours).  The 5 laps were made up mostly because we were able to do almost every pit stop on Saturday under yellow and Rbank did not.

 

7.  Chumpcar staff members and board members are defending the V6 MR2

-Most of these Chumpcar staff and board members also happen to be V6 MR2 stakeholders

 

8.  The V6 MR2 stakeholders get very defensive when you say their cars are too fast

-No comment

 

9.  If Troy built an E30, he would be just as fast

-Doing 1:28's at AMP in a 2300-2400 lb E30 making 155 whp (GWR's car is a ~490 point car) seems to defy the laws of physics if you ask me.  The GWR car has a 1.50 OD x 0.095 cage and does not have much weight that can come out.  It would loose 20-25 lbs if they bought some expensive wheels, and maybe 10 lbs from going to a lexan windshield.  Short of cutting the entire trunk off the car or something (where would you put the wing?), I don't think less than 2200 lbs is possible in a legal E30.  You also will struggle to get over 165 whp unless you cheat.

 

On a somewhat related note, can anyone tell me if this is light enough to be competitive in Chumpcar?

20170603_181007.thumb.jpg.af784a3d1532a9877f83649dbe6d5008.jpg20170704_210649.thumb.jpg.ea8c093f9fcd0944c03965f3f03636d3.jpg

 

Definitely have some corner weight issues to address :P

 

 Man I hope your jack stand is off a click or da floor is a a bit uneven .  A definite congratulations on a clean start ..

 

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9 hours ago, FlorahDorah said:

Now that's what I'm talkin' about! I personally can't see a thing because I have the camera's perspective, so I'm impressed you are driving as fast as you can while wiping the windshield. 

I’m amazed that he can REACH the windshield!   I’m 6’1” and there is no way I can reach it when I’m belted in. 

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10 hours ago, Racer28173 said:

I’m amazed that he can REACH the windshield!   I’m 6’1” and there is no way I can reach it when I’m belted in. 

 

Ben and I are both over 6' and can barely reach that left corner of the windshield while belted in, that's why he also has the "rag on a stick". The bilge blower couldn't keep up in those conditions and the view from the driver's seat wasn't a whole lot better than the video indicates. There were times on Saturday when we would drive by looking out the side windows to get a bearing for corners.

 

A new windshield with heat tape will be installed over the winter.  That should put a stop to rainy races!

 

 ...and I won't ever wash my car before a race again. I apologize for angering the racing gods.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, revvhappy said:

 

Ben and I are both over 6' and can barely reach that left corner of the windshield while belted in, that's why he also has the "rag on a stick". The bilge blower couldn't keep up in those conditions and the view from the driver's seat wasn't a whole lot better than the video indicates. There were times on Saturday when we would drive by looking out the side windows to get a bearing for corners.

 

A new windshield with heat tape will be installed over the winter.  That should put a stop to rainy races!

 

 ...and I won't ever wash my car before a race again. I apologize for angering the racing gods.

 

 

You tall guys must have Alligator arms.  :lol:

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
53 minutes ago, revvhappy said:

 

Ben and I are both over 6' and can barely reach that left corner of the windshield while belted in, that's why he also has the "rag on a stick". The bilge blower couldn't keep up in those conditions and the view from the driver's seat wasn't a whole lot better than the video indicates. There were times on Saturday when we would drive by looking out the side windows to get a bearing for corners.

 

A new windshield with heat tape will be installed over the winter.  That should put a stop to rainy races!

 

 ...and I won't ever wash my car before a race again. I apologize for angering the racing gods.

 

 

 

Be careful.. My heat-taped windshield failed at AMP too.  Cant figure out why yet.. its getting hot in my shop.  How hot is enough to stop frost?

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Huggy said:

 

Be careful.. My heat-taped windshield failed at AMP too.  Cant figure out why yet.. its getting hot in my shop.  How hot is enough to stop frost?

 

 

 

I'll keep the blower (with a redesign) as a backup for the heat tape. I tried shaving cream on the inside of the windshield (read about it in a forum somewhere) during my last stint and it helped to slow down fog build-up tremendously. In my haste during the pit stop I didn't have enough dry paper towels or time to get all of the residue buffed out which led to some interesting "fizzing" on the inside of the windshield as the session progressed... by that time the "rag on a stick" had flown into a corner of the car where I couldn't reach it. 

 

 

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We did the "rag on a squeegee" at the only National Championship to date in Iowa back in 2011.  We were told no bueno to have it in the car but it was the only way to see through the windshield.  Between flag stations we would be furiously scrubbing the windshield haha.  But it worked.  

Edited by Jer
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2 hours ago, Jer said:

We did the "rag on a squeegee" at the only National Championship to date in Iowa back in 2011.  We were told no bueno to have it in the car but it was the only way to see through the windshield.  Between flag stations we would be furiously scrubbing the windshield haha.  But it worked.  

I'm pretty sure I've related this before.

 

We had the stock car prepped for Mosport one year by an east coast team just to see what tricks they had up their sleeves. They put two 3" holes with fans through the firewall/dash area to pull heated air in off the headers. Besides being against the rules, I felt it was a bad idea because I figured one puddle would result in disaster when the water splashed onto the headers then got sucked in and onto the windshield. The first weekend was dry but the next was a very rainy day at ICAR. Sure enough, the driver didn't even get one practice lap in before hitting a puddle and disappearing in a cloud of steam. He had to pull off the track and I had to guide him back to the pits via the radio because he couldn't see out the windshield at all!

 

We had the obligatory rag on a stick ready so he could at least do some laps; taped off the firewall holes and sent him back out. Meanwhile I rigged up an inside wiper using our spare wiper arm, a piece of tubing for a handle, some duct tape (of course!) and a roll bar clamp for a pivot. I used a hose clamp to attach it to the windshield halo bar with the handle right above the steering wheel within easy reach. All he had to do was move the handle back and forth and the wiper cleared the windshield very nicely. No fumbling for a stick, no stick flopping around under the driver's feet, clear vision as often as he needed it and only about a second needed to get it. He was very pleased.

 

We redid the "defogging system" with decent success but kept the inside wiper (refined) in the pit box just in case. As it turned out at Trois Rivieres he needed it again, the hose clamp was still on the bar so it only took me about 15 seconds to re-install it.

 

The Fiero doesn't fog up the windshield at all. I have the rad air ducted up and through the hood which moves over the outside of the windshield, and being mid-engined there are no hot engine parts out front, both of which appear to contribute to a clear windshield. I use anti-fog on the inside as well.

 

You can see how clear the windshield is here. Start at 12:00 when I finally figure out where the track is (first laps at the Ridge for me):

 As you can see, no heater/defog system, blowers or heat tape. I was testing the relocated air intake to make sure it was no longer sucking in copious amounts of water and killing the engine. Not really trying for a decent lap, mainly playing a bit while running the engine up a few times. Reminded me of my ice-racing days. :)

Edited by mender
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