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Disabling Traction Control


thewheelerZ
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Can anyone give me info on how to fully disable a brake based traction control? (one that applies brakes to a spinning wheel using the abs system).  I would rather keep ABS as it makes braking just so easy for us ham fisted (footed) drivers.  Is there a way to keep the abs but permanently disable traction control? I.e trying to avoid pulling the ABS fuse.

 

Also, is there a good place I can find info on how those systems work and the specs?  I'm specifically talking about a 2000/2001 Lincoln LS.  From what I can find, the 2nd Gen LS has this system of traction control, but cant find much info on the 1st gen.  Hoping to see if we just push the Trac off button does it fully disable it or is it still kind of on in the background, and will it come back on automatically if we get big sideways.  Google isn't bringing up too much for me.

 

No idea if the LS would be any good.  Could likely do ok (though maybe fairly difficult to get to the pointy end), but it could be a fun car to build and be a bit different than most other cars.

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Does the car have a yaw sensor?  I know in some BMWs that is how you can disable the TCS and stability control.  

 

I assume you want to keep the ABS, so I guess disconnecting the wheelspeed sensors would be out of the question.  

 

Are you guys building an LS?  3.0 or 3.9?  

Edited by jmabarone
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6 minutes ago, jmabarone said:

Does the car have a yaw sensor?  I know in some BMWs that is how you can disable the TCS and stability control.  

 

I assume you want to keep the ABS, so I guess disconnecting the wheelspeed sensors would be out of the question.  

 

Are you guys building an LS?  3.0 or 3.9?  

 

No idea.  Not sure how I could even go about finding that out.  I will search on the web though.  Yeah, want to keep ABS if at all possible.

 

We are debating building one yeah.  Still haven't landed on what we want to do but its on a short list of cars.  Thinking 3.0 with a manual even though V8s sound so good.  Auto transmissions drive me crazy on the road, the last thing I need is an auto im forced to drive for weekends/racing too!

Edited by thewheelerZ
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consider running the sensors off the same wheel or axle...  I would just wire both rear sensors to the front wheels...  this should also defeat Ice mode for you.

 

I was trying some fancy stuff on my FBody to use a DSP to mess with the sensors to allow some lockup and spinning at the wheel, but to send input  that everything was fine and prevent ice mode; allow controlled wheel spin, etc...  never got it all working, but just because I lost interest.

 

The DSP part is easier with hall effect sensors, unfortunately I was still on the older inductive sensors.

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1 hour ago, thewheelerZ said:

 

No idea.  Not sure how I could even go about finding that out.  I will search on the web though.  Yeah, want to keep ABS if at all possible.

 

We are debating building one yeah.  Still haven't landed on what we want to do but its on a short list of cars.  Thinking 3.0 with a manual even though V8s sound so good.  Auto transmissions drive me crazy on the road, the last thing I need is an auto im forced to drive for weekends/racing too!

Awesome.  My wife had a 500 with that engine (10% less power) and it sounded so good completely stock.  I dream of putting that engine and transmission in a Miata some day.  

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4 hours ago, thewheelerZ said:

So if left on, how much additional brake wear/heat will we see?  Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, and just the ABS machine wasting money in both gas and brake pads.

 

How much tire spinning are you planning on doing? :D

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35 minutes ago, thewheelerZ said:

technical details online

Love the Yaw sensor hack idea!

 

Or

 

This is how I Swapped motors using factory ECUs (Trans computer is separate & on other side of car)

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-FORD-Lincoln-LS-Service-Shop-Repair-Manual-Set-W-EWD-Specs-LOTS-Factory/352175586122?hash=item51ff4cfb4a:g:ZWgAAOSwreVZzzBg&vxp=mtr

 

or

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-OEM-Factory-Service-Repair-Manual-ON-DVD/272562332454?fits=Year%3A2001|Make%3ALincoln|Model%3ALS&hash=item3f75fb2326:g:TugAAOSw4A5Yqfvn&vxp=mtr

 

 

Edited by Team Infiniti
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2 hours ago, Xph said:

consider running the sensors off the same wheel or axle...  I would just wire both rear sensors to the front wheels...  this should also defeat Ice mode for you.

 

I was trying some fancy stuff on my FBody to use a DSP to mess with the sensors to allow some lockup and spinning at the wheel, but to send input  that everything was fine and prevent ice mode; allow controlled wheel spin, etc...  never got it all working, but just because I lost interest.

 

The DSP part is easier with hall effect sensors, unfortunately I was still on the older inductive sensors.

This is a decent idea actually.  It could work.  Just would need to make sure I have sufficient front bias braking to avoid locking up the rears and having ABS on the fronts right?

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44 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Love the Yaw sensor hack idea!

 

The best part is that you can usually leave it in the car in case you want it in the rain.  In the event that it starts acting up on track, you can just put your left foot down right in front of the seat and pull the wires out.  Takes a few tries if you aren't sure where it is exactly, but sure beats coming into the pits.  ;) 

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9 minutes ago, thewheelerZ said:

This is a decent idea actually.  It could work.  Just would need to make sure I have sufficient front bias braking to avoid locking up the rears and having ABS on the fronts right?

 

Yep, but abs is designed with front bias, its when you lock up your rears, that the car freaks out and thinks you must be on ice...  (particularly bad if you can corner hard enough to lift a rear tire or have it light during trail braking)...  

 

You will lock rears when trail braking for sure, but you at least wont loose front braking because ABS is trying to be smarter than you.

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4 minutes ago, Xph said:

 

Yep, but abs is designed with front bias, its when you lock up your rears, that the car freaks out and thinks you must be on ice...  (particularly bad if you can corner hard enough to lift a rear tire or have it light during trail braking)...  

 

You will lock rears when trail braking for sure, but you at least wont loose front braking because ABS is trying to be smarter than you.

 

And to be clear, you suggest just splicing the rear wire into the front sensor on respective sides?

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15 minutes ago, jmabarone said:

The best part is that you can usually leave it in the car in case you want it in the rain.  In the event that it starts acting up on track, you can just put your left foot down right in front of the seat and pull the wires out.  Takes a few tries if you aren't sure where it is exactly, but sure beats coming into the pits.  ;) 

Quick search says the "AdvanceTrac" cars have steering angle and yaw sensors.  But from what I can tell, that was an upgrade on Gen I and possibly standard (or at least very common) on Gen II cars.   Im hoping, that Gen I base model cars don't even have this "AdvancTrac" and its simple button that disables the whole thing.

 

On a side note, Lincoln owners are funny.  Pretty much every forum thread regarding a malfunctioning traction system has at least one guy saying "do you realize that Ford did not design it that way.  It is very unsafe and you should get that fixed as soon as possible".  Seems as if this is a different crowd over here on this forum.  I like you guys better!

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25 minutes ago, thewheelerZ said:

you suggest just splicing the rear wire into the front sensor on respective sides

Yikes, this makes my head spin, not because I am one of those safety/forum Nazis but because I am a daily tech and can not guess the strategy the abs will employ...  be careful and let us know what it does (remember, things may seem normal until driven in anger)

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Are there tone rings on the hub? If so, can they be relocated? Could you put them both on the driveshaft and move the sensors there? It would have the nice side effect of keeping ABS working (only if both rear wheels were locked, which a lot of ABS circuits are three channel like that anyway)

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at the end of the day the signals are not that complicated, the software however does have its own method, and frankly fails you (re ice mode) even when driven in anger as designed by the engineers (who didnt consider motorsports use or sticky tires)..

 

I would start with the wiring, take it for a spin, a low speed rolling stop should tell you if you are ok, if ABS kicks in at 2mph your having a problem...  (cause someone had to go and say "safety"  I will mention that you should not drive your vehicle on the street and I take no credit for you not being able to stop as expected)

 

Now lets talk about what it means to splice the wires...   there are two types of abs sensors, inductive and hall effect...  the former doesn't have any power, just a signal...  this type might not like you very much if you run two sets of wires to the same sensor as you potentially halved the voltage...   you may also run into a situation where the impedance is off, and the abs light will come on...  in this case you need to run two sensors to the same tone ring...

 

If you have Hall Effect sensors, you typically have a 5v wire, I would only splice the signal wire, not the voltage wires, again if your abs sensor light comes on, you may need separate sensors on the same hub..

 

You should also probably go count teeth, make sure the front and rear tone rings are the same size...  and that your door sticker expects the same size tire front and rear, both of these matter, you want the computer to see that both wheels are spinning or not...

 

Then I would go find some gravel and give the abs a test, see if the computer can engage abs, and can figure out how not to lock up the tires...

 

If you pass both these tests, I would head for an autox event...  best place I have found to "drive in anger" where you dont risk a tire wall or thousand dollar event fee..

 

If it shakes down at an autocross, I (yes I just me) would trust it.

 

 

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