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Bill Strong

New VPi table is out - 1803 - 12/22/2017

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Wow, this is getting a little ridiculous.....

 

Curb weight and engine size and all of this to compare the 626 to the MR2....

 

Comparing different values of specific cars from different teams just muddies the waters. 

 

I have NO idea how we can directly compare this (1) 626 to this (1) MR2....

 

 

Here are the questions (IMHO)....

 

1) Should Champcar change VPI values to reign in cars that are PROVEN to be dominant? 

          1A) If yes, we need to define what dominance means (fast lap, win rate, win margin, a combination of a few of these or all of these, etc...). 

                     1B) If we can agree on those items.... (ha) than we can try to determine what that VPi change should be.

 

Spell it out.  Lets make it clear and understandable.  Right now, I don't know if the first question has been answered by the board OR club members.  Is this even something that we want?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ron_e said:

 

Sure, are you at 200 now and you want to be 250?

no...50 LESS than a 350 car....lol I was being sarcastic. How about 45? one for each cube?

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31 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

Ok, so please tell me how 626 vs MR2, only peak horsepower is the sole reason for a cars speed on track?  why do brakes, handling, weight distribution, etc never come into play?

 

I'll play too.  What about aftermarket support and performance part availability.  Lots more people racing MR2's VS 626's....

 

This is the way we poke the bear, poke the bear, poke the bear.

This is the way we poke the bear, all day long.

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15 minutes ago, flboy7x said:

It's easy, change swap rule to reflect vpi points to the car the engine came out of.

End of story. Less go fast parts and pieces would have to be used to keep the car under 500pts and less controversy.

 

That wouldn't work. What would stop me from putting a minivan motor in a porsche 944?

 

I have unlimited fuel and a race car chassis with the massive power of a minivan with the new platform reflective of on track performance of a minivan?

 

NOPE, SORRY, POORLY THOUGHT IDEA

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Just now, red0 said:

 

That wouldn't work. What would stop me from putting a minivan motor in a porsche 944?

 

I have unlimited fuel and a race car chassis with the massive power of a minivan with the new platform reflective of on track performance of a minivan?

 

NOPE, SORRY, POORLY THOUGHT IDEA

I never put pen to paper to see how it would work, but I was once thinking along the lines of 1/3 off the VPI for removing the engine, then adding 2/3 of the VPI of the donor car.

 

Let's say both cars are 300 points, to keep the math simple. 300-100+200= 400 after the swap.

 

Again, I never actually put pen to paper to see what values would work, or if it was even feasible. It was a mental exercise only. Maybe 1/4 and 1/2 would work, or 1/2 - 1/2. Maybe it's a dumb idea all around. 

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7 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

That wouldn't work. What would stop me from putting a minivan motor in a porsche 944?

 

I have unlimited fuel and a race car chassis with the massive power of a minivan with the new platform reflective of on track performance of a minivan?

 

NOPE, SORRY, POORLY THOUGHT IDEA

The minivans are all listed around 350 or so...  The 944 is only 375....

 

P.S. I like your path to success.  however, I would start with a car that has a more traditional transmission and looks an awful lot like a 944....

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1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said:

The minivans are all listed around 350 or so...  The 944 is only 375....

 

P.S. I like your path to success.  however, I would start with a car that has a more traditional transmission and looks an awful lot like a 944....

21 gallons of fuel though

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3 minutes ago, flboy7x said:

whats ur minivans vpi?? usually all these swaps are being done with newer and more hp motors with higher vpi point values.

350 for the newest Chevy Venture out there.  The Newest Honda Odyssey is the same.  350.

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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5 minutes ago, jmabarone said:

21 gallons of fuel though

How much fuel do you need?  Stock RX7 has 16.5 useable gallons and 100 points less VPi....

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45 minutes ago, TBone said:

I never put pen to paper to see how it would work, but I was once thinking along the lines of 1/3 off the VPI for removing the engine, then adding 2/3 of the VPI of the donor car.

 

Let's say both cars are 300 points, to keep the math simple. 300-100+200= 400 after the swap.

 

Again, I never actually put pen to paper to see what values would work, or if it was even feasible. It was a mental exercise only. Maybe 1/4 and 1/2 would work, or 1/2 - 1/2. Maybe it's a dumb idea all around. 

I'll swap in the engine from one of those really low VPI "american iron" cars... big engine.. bad race car. Drop that puppy into an e30. 

5.0 mustange.. 250 VPI

e30 450 VPI

Result: 300 + 167 = 467 points

 

Oh look, I just gained 35 HP for 17 points!

 

Terrible idea.. pursue it no further.

 

[edit]

math is hard

Edited by enginerd
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mmmm, the idea of an E36 with an Odyssey motor is delicious.    I'd gladly find a way to drop that motor in if I can get the resultant 150 pts to play with on the chassis.....

 

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1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said:

350 for the newest Chevy Venture out there.  The Newest Honda Odyssey is the same.  350.

Sounds like a great idea.   e30 with 230+ hp Odyssey engine and only 350pts     PARTY  anyone wanta buy a miata.....

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This thread is setting a record....I think its cleared like 25 sharks now.

 

1 minute ago, MoparBoyy said:

what about swapping a VQ35, i mean VQ30 into that 944?

30, 35 whatever it takes.

 

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18 hours ago, Bill Strong said:

It's the weight. and the drivers. But mostly the weight.

 

Are you saying the weight of the drivers is worth 4 seconds? You aren’t that big Bill. I say 2 seconds. 

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4 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

This thread is setting a record....I think its cleared like 25 sharks now.

 

30, 35 whatever it takes.

 

 

its not like they are any different right?

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7 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

This thread is setting a record....I think its cleared like 25 sharks now.

 

30, 35 whatever it takes.

 

 

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Wait,  Miata's not for sale anymore.   Going with a small block from a 69 elcamino.   New points only 100.   plenty of points for 9in ford diff and a tranny swap.   Of course if we "have " to take the Elcamino points we get its fuel capacity.    Everyone get out the way...this thing is going to be Mazda 626 fast.......................................

And I thought today wasn't going to be fun

They just dont make a color that's green enough.    

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26 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

The minivans are all listed around 350 or so...  The 944 is only 375....

 

P.S. I like your path to success.  however, I would start with a car that has a more traditional transmission and looks an awful lot like a 944....

Dodge Conquest?

1986 Dodge Conquest.jpg

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2 hours ago, Jer said:

From Wiki, don't know if it's accurate or not.  They don't reference a curb weight difference for a V6 vs. a 4 banger.  It appears the difference is from a sedan to a hatchback.  ??

 

Curb weight 1,180–1,340 kg (2,601–2,954 lb) (sedan/hatchback)

 

Curb weight (as measured by me) of a V6 in stock form is a touch over 2800lbs. 

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20 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

Dodge Conquest?

1986 Dodge Conquest.jpg

Someone is building one.

 

Don't know where they found it as I think I've seen a total of 2 in my lifetime.

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29 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

Wait,  Miata's not for sale anymore.   Going with a small block from a 69 elcamino.   New points only 100.   plenty of points for 9in ford diff and a tranny swap.   Of course if we "have " to take the Elcamino points we get its fuel capacity.    Everyone get out the way...this thing is going to be Mazda 626 fast.......................................

And I thought today wasn't going to be fun

They just dont make a color that's green enough.    

The front weight bias a 2 barrel 350 gives you should be epic. 

 

Of course, the 9 in back does offset that, but it's unsprung.

 

Build it. :D

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Just to add fuel to the fire, I really hope Troy's new car is a MR2 Turbo.  That would be a fantastic troll.  

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3 minutes ago, jmabarone said:

Just to add fuel to the fire, I really hope Troy's new car is a MR2 Turbo.  That would be a fantastic troll.  

350 point 200 HP car with free turbo / ecu tuning.... it would be more powerful than his current car.

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