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@chisek @Doc @Mopar 63 @riche30 @TAlexander

 

In 2016, members voted overwhelmingly in favor of Open Tech Sheets: https://forum.chumpcar.com/topic/14631-open-tech-sheets-improved/

 

 

Later that year, board meetings minutes state that the petition for Open Tech Sheets was "Denied [...] but plan to move to more open tech/log books for 2017"

 

On September 28, 2016 @Mikiel stated that, "Open tech sheets are coming for sure in 2017."

 

The 2017 and 2018 rules (5.4.3) state that Champcar will post tech sheets on cars at impound, but so far this has largely failed to happen.

 

What will you do to make self-policing work in Champcar?

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Stated this in the Sebring post but here it goes again. Once a team is assigned a number put them in a directory on the Champcar site.  It should add them to the team map, have a link to their tech sheets/log book and a link to their website, social media account or at the very least an email that goes to the team captain. 

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7 minutes ago, Kentite said:

Stated this in the Sebring post but here it goes again. Once a team is assigned a number put them in a directory on the Champcar site.  It should add them to the team map, have a link to their tech sheets/log book and a link to their website, social media account or at the very least an email that goes to the team captain. 

 

This would actually be really nice because then people would know what numbers are available, and give people an idea who teams are.

 

Have numbers lapse if they do not register for a race for 6 months.

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I took my logbook and tech sheet to registration at Sebring.  I was told they are scanning all tech sheets into a system so they will have them electronically at every race for every car.   That seems like a move in the right direction in order to put them on cars on the podium at the end of a race.    Phils statement to folks at Laguna are concerning though. 

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1 hour ago, takjak2 said:

@chisek @Doc @Mopar 63 @riche30 @TAlexander

 

In 2016, members voted overwhelmingly in favor of Open Tech Sheets: https://forum.chumpcar.com/topic/14631-open-tech-sheets-improved/

 

 

Later that year, board meetings minutes state that the petition for Open Tech Sheets was "Denied [...] but plan to move to more open tech/log books for 2017"

 

On September 28, 2016 @Mikiel stated that, "Open tech sheets are coming for sure in 2017."

 

The 2017 and 2018 rules (5.4.3) state that Champcar will post tech sheets on cars at impound, but so far this has largely failed to happen.

 

What will you do to make self-policing work in Champcar?

 

Just to further reinforce this, it was my petition that was denied but the board did approve having open tech sheets on impound cars and that was later added to the rules.  Prior to submitting my petition I started a couple of threads with the ability to vote on having open tech sheets, if I recall correctly about 80% of the voters were in favour of open tech sheets.

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2 hours ago, Snorman said:

Even more concerning is that it's stated as a rule in the BCCR, but apparently is not being enforced. 

 

Not sure if anyone on here was at Laguna but here's exactly what happened and what I said;

We do not have tech sheets for all of the cars at any given race.  Tech sheets are a work sheet for what is officially entered into your log books.  Once a team passes annual tech they do not need a tech sheet or to go back through tech unless they make changes on their car. At their next race teams go straight to registration and the log books are documented for the race by the registrar.

 

We have teams that travel across the USA and from Canada to compete.  Their fully documented, filled out and signed log books are the official documentation for their VPI, value added items, and TCV for the car as it’s raced and it is the teams responsibility to make sure it is correct.

 

The VPI, TCV & penalty laps for all of the competing cars are posted at each race in registration for teams to review.    

 

Podium cars are required to present their log books at impound. Failure to produce your current log book will result in a disqualification.  The tech at the race (John Passion was conducting impound at Laguna) had collected the log books to conduct his re-tech of podium cars.  I made an announcement to clarify and explain why we do not have tech sheets and anyone I repeat anyone can ask him to look at these log books for the impounded cars.  We’re not trying to hide or conceal anything.  We need these books for our review, to see that they are not damaged by weather, not tampered with and returned to the teams after the completion of the impound.  At Laguna at several people asked and were shown the books and understood the reason impound is conducted this way. 

 

Thanks for your comments and concerns. 

We are striving to be consistent in the impound process and encourage anyone that has questions to address them to the tech at impound so we can take the opportunity to get them addressed while we are there. 

 

Phil McKinney

Director Tech & Safety 

 

 

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Thanks for clarifying, Phil. This makes sense now.

 

I think the confusion came about because the collective group of Champs/Chumps use the terms "log book" and "tech sheet" interchangeably. And when you said "no open tech sheets" it was interpreted as "no transparency in impound".

16 minutes ago, Mopar 63 said:

anyone I repeat anyone can ask him to look at these log books for the impounded cars.

 

Edited by enginerd
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3 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said:

If not all of the information from the tech sheet is in the log book, how can anyone (tech included) asses a car at impound with only the log book? 

Everything which adds points will be in the logbook. That's all you need.

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This is what the BCCR states:

5.4.3. ChumpCar will place a printed copy of each vehicle’s tech sheet on the windshield during impound.

There is no room for ambiguity there. I can understand Phil's point re: availability of tech sheets. But it's pretty black and white. So are we doing this? 

S. 

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2 minutes ago, Snorman said:

This is what the BCCR states:

5.4.3. ChumpCar will place a printed copy of each vehicle’s tech sheet on the windshield during impound.

There is no room for ambiguity there. I can understand Phil's point re: availability of tech sheets. But it's pretty black and white. So are we doing this? 

S. 

Chill out a sec... the BCCR is a living document... rules are implemented and changed and modifications are made over the years. Thinking that simply because the words are written that they must and will be followed to the letter is a bit naive. 

 

Clearly there will be transparency in impound. Whether or not it comes in the form of a tech sheet or a logbook is almost irrelevant.

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My suggestion back then was to bring both the logbook and a copy of your tech sheet to every race whether you were going through tech or not.  If you make impound then the sheet gets posted on your windshield and hand your logbook to tech.  It didn't seem that difficult to me.  If they are being scanned and stored now then that small issue is solved.

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1 minute ago, enginerd said:

Chill out a sec... the BCCR is a living document... rules are implemented and changed and modifications are made over the years. Thinking that simply because the words are written that they must and will be followed to the letter is a bit naive. 

 

Clearly there will be transparency in impound. Whether or not it comes in the form of a tech sheet or a logbook is almost irrelevant.

So why have a BCCR at all? Just do a 10-12 page set of "guidelines". Let tech interpret them subjectively on a race-by-race basis. They can be general recommendations rather than a steadfast rules set. Sounds like a great idea.  

S. 

 

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1 hour ago, enginerd said:

Thinking that simply because the words are written that they must and will be followed to the letter is a reasonable expectation.

FIFY. :)

 

Silly me for thinking that just because they're called "rules" ...:rolleyes:

Edited by mender
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1 hour ago, Snorman said:

So why have a BCCR at all? Just do a 10-12 page set of "guidelines". Let tech interpret them subjectively on a race-by-race basis. They can be general recommendations rather than a steadfast rules set. Sounds like a great idea.  

S. 

 

Or let people choose the 10-12 pages of the present rulebook that they want to abide by and list those on a tech sheet that no one gets to see. ;)

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There seems to have been serious resistance to providing good information to competitors at races for a few years   

 

I dont one understand why. 

 

Have teams bring their sheets to each race. If they don't bring it, have them fill out a new one.   Put them in a note book.  Allow the team captain access.    

 

Info should be available on all cars, and not for just a few minutes in impound 

 

We have live broadcasts from all over the country with 3 people in different locations.   That seems way harder than "here are 75 pieces of paper".   

 

 

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1 hour ago, JDChristianson said:

Have teams bring their sheets to each race. If they don't bring it, have them fill out a new one.   Put them in a note book.  Allow the team captain access.      

 

 

Require team to present the tech sheet at registration.  If it hasn't changed, use a copier and make copies for each race you will attend.  Total Champcar investment, one 3 ring binder and a 3 hole punch.

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