Jump to content

Fuel tank rule suggestions?


Recommended Posts

1)  Add " stock and unmodified" to the current rule. Pretty much how 90% of Chumps have interpreted the rule.  Enforcement  ; Add a line on the tech form for fuel capacity , post it on the side of the car.  Check any suspect cars post race.  Unintended consequences. A few teams need new tanks.  Maybe those same teams go to a cell with +2.

 

2) Change cell sizes to;  Any sub 14gal car can use  16 gal cell.   UC;  a few teams will buy new cells.  The forum will die . Swapped small cars will do even better .   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Worrying about stock capacity is not the issue, it is the safety compromise when messing with the tank shape we need to focus upon, capacity mostly fixes itself if tank balloning becomes illegal, .....Govern the tank itself as unmodified, leave the filler/venting up to the team, we virtually have stopped spilling fuel during refilling since adding a vent. (yes we can cram a tiny bit more fuel in because it increases speed efficiency, get over it)

Yeah I said it.

 

If someone wants to put 13gal in their 11 gal honda they should either get a cell or should have chosen the 13gal variant chassis or do a legal chassis swap with the 13gal variant of their car.

 

Plenty of ways to work within the rules without having to add more then a couple of words;)

Edited by Team Infiniti
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Justin9 said:

FY2019, require aftermarket certified fuel cell for all cars.  We had to buy fire systems, why not a fuel cell...

 

Go....

There is a big difference from a cost perspective. 

The safety issue is the point, so simply require (as the BCCR already enumerates) the stock tank in the stock location and "stock" is defined in Section 4 of the BCCR. The tank may not be modified.

S. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Justin9 said:

FY2019, require aftermarket certified fuel cell for all cars.  We had to buy fire systems, why not a fuel cell...

 

Go....

Why punish all when you can fix this limited issue (small number of cars now but....) with just a few words in the rule book. I don't want to buy a fuel cell. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We all have to run cages and fire-suppression systems.  We all have to wear helmets and Nomex.  We all had to get HANS devices a year or two ago.  No doubt about it, it would suck from a money stand-point, but I fail see how requiring fuel cells would be a BAD thing.  As has been said by many on here before, even cheap racing is not inexpensive.

 

2 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Govern the tank itself as unmodified, leave the filler/venting up to the team,

 

Does that just refer to the shell of the tank or everything attached to it (inside and out)?  Is the portion of the filler that is attached to the tank considered part of the filler or part of the tank?  Just trying to nitpick because you know somebody else will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

We all have to run cages and fire-suppression systems.  We all have to wear helmets and Nomex.  We all had to get HANS devices a year or two ago.  No doubt about it, it would suck from a money stand-point, but I fail see how requiring fuel cells would be a BAD thing.  As has been said by many on here before, even cheap racing is not inexpensive.

 

 

Does that just refer to the shell of the tank or everything attached to it (inside and out)?  Is the portion of the filler that is attached to the tank considered part of the filler or part of the tank?  Just trying to nitpick because you know somebody else will.

I am one to believe the engineers did a decent/safe job placing the tank out of harms way (skipping GM saddle tanks) Who said every Chuamp knows how to safely weld up a cell mount?

 

Not every car is made the same, some bolt the neck on, others use coupled hoses, some use multiple fuel tanks, why focus on the things away from the question....Tank integrity (seam welds/underbody fitment/strength ridges) when stretched/reshaped is what THE question, not venting/filling/relocation of fill point..... I would say shell.

Edited by Team Infiniti
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Who said every Chuamp knows how to safely weld up a cell mount?

The same one who said every Chuamp knows how to weld up a roll-cage and bolt all the moving (and stationary) pieces of a car together properly and run their own fuel, oil, and brake lines.  And battery mounts.  We all DEFINITELY know how to mount batteries properly.  I remember that thread.  (what's the secret font for "some sarcasm, but I'm also a bit serious, too")

 

Speaking of which, I need to go fix our battery mount...

Edited by karman1970
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the other thread you will see three primary suspects of fuel tank inflation. In the case of Miatas, I can tell you that a fuel cell installation is not only an unnecessary cost, but increased complexity, the net result is difficult, time consuming, and does not place the cell in a safer location. It is for these reasons that you won't find a Miata with a fuel cell. For the same reason, Miatas don't go 2 hours.

 

We don't have an expanded tank. Please don't try to force everyone into a fuel cell.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said:

Who said every Chuamp knows how to safely weld up a cell mount?

9.10.2.10. Fuel Cell Installation: If you decide to install a fuel cell, it must be securely mounted in a professional manner and must be installed in a safe location. All aftermarket fuel components must use threaded fittings and appropriate hose types, and include all appropriate racecar- quality vents, valves, and other features. Fuel cell installation will be judged on overall execution and apparent safety.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My $500... er, 400 point car is already $10k deep. $2k more for no apparent safety reason and I'm done. Please don't reply with "I can find used NASCAR tanks for $400 all day long". The reality is that cell and installation will require at least $1500 by the time you cut/weld/reinforce/plumb etc. My OE tank is 16 gallons and there are few 18 gallon cells, so add displacement blocks to the $$$ list.

 

If you feel that someone is gaining an advantage by modifying a fuel tank then throw paper.  Leave my well designed and protected OE tank alone.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said:

I am one to believe the engineers did a decent/safe job placing the tank out of harms way (skipping GM saddle tanks) Who said every Chuamp knows how to safely weld up a cell mount?

 

My cell did not have any mount. I backed the car into the wall at somewhere around 70mph at Road America. It crushed the back of the car so bad that everything behind the rear shock towers was completely destroyed. The fuel cell did not have a scratch. 

 

eE_CRP49L-C8Ot5WaxHlwBV2dVDIR1IxE3UdD2TV

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, takjak2 said:

In the other thread you will see three primary suspects of fuel tank inflation. In the case of Miatas, I can tell you that a fuel cell installation is not only an unnecessary cost, but increased complexity, the net result is difficult, time consuming, and does not place the cell in a safer location. It is for these reasons that you won't find a Miata with a fuel cell. For the same reason, Miatas don't go 2 hours.

 

We don't have an expanded tank. Please don't try to force everyone into a fuel cell.

I wouldn't generalize too much, we are a Miata with a cell that can go 2hrs, and to be honest, it wasn't difficult to put in, maybe 3hrs of total work once we decided how to do it.  It is not in a safer location though, so I'll give you that point.

 

I am 100% in agreement that the stock nonmodified wording needs to be put back in place, and it needs to take the vent into consideration.  Otherwise, maybe the series needs to go down the road of certified cells, heck, maybe they get a hold of a company as a sponsor to offer some type of a discount to offset the cost?  Dunno, like said above, we went cell from day 1 and it was half for getting 2hrs and half because our cage builder/semi-pro racer was adamant that we should do it for the safety of it and we took his advice.

 

To the points prior regarding dents for expansion, think about a team crossing the blend line at a track like Road America after taking a full tank and getting hit directly in the rear by a car doing 120+,  it makes me cringe thinking about it.   Safety for all competitors needs to be put first and foremost. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, red0 said:

eE_CRP49L-C8Ot5WaxHlwBV2dVDIR1IxE3UdD2TV

For the people reading this who don't have extensive knowledge of this car... the fuel cell was mounted between the main hoop and the backstay attachment points. In hindsight, a much safer location than the trunk (which is where many cells are mounted) seeing how crumpled this trunk is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
22 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Glad it worked out, I am worried about people doing stuff they should let a pro do.

 

Some of us amateur garageists work hard on our cars and do quality work. 

Edited by red0
  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...