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"OEM" power adder instalation


shakenbake
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I emailed tech last week and haven't had a response yet so I thought I'd try here We are trying to justify installing a supercharger on our recently acquired ChumpCar.  The car is a 1987 Pontiac Fiero, it is a swap car with a swapped VPI of 288.  there was a supercharger option for the donor engine so looking at the fixed point value list a NON-OEM supercharger is 100pts, the part I'm not clear on is that we would need to use the heads off the supercharged version of the donor engine only because on the location of the fuel injectors.  the heads are identical with the exception of the injector being located in the intake port of the head vs. the lower intake on the naturally aspirated version of the engine.  Would we need to add another 100pts for the heads? or is that supercharger mounting accessory? 

Our '87 Fiero had 140HP and a Base VPI of 150,   The swap (205hp 3.8L V6 from a 2004 Buick Century) takes us up to a VPI of 288 the issue is that if we where to lie and say we used a OEM Supercharged 3.8L out of a 240hp 98-04 GrandPrix GTP or Regal GS the VPI jumps to 1118

I'm not looking to cheat and honestly the car is just fine with 205HP but current;y we are well under the 500point limit and I'd just like to maximize the car to the fullest extent of the rules,  I'd just like clarification on this before we commit.
 

Thanks

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2 hours ago, shakenbake said:

I emailed tech last week and haven't had a response yet so I thought I'd try here We are trying to justify installing a supercharger on our recently acquired ChumpCar.  The car is a 1987 Pontiac Fiero, it is a swap car with a swapped VPI of 288.  there was a supercharger option for the donor engine so looking at the fixed point value list a NON-OEM supercharger is 100pts, the part I'm not clear on is that we would need to use the heads off the supercharged version of the donor engine only because on the location of the fuel injectors.  the heads are identical with the exception of the injector being located in the intake port of the head vs. the lower intake on the naturally aspirated version of the engine.  Would we need to add another 100pts for the heads? or is that supercharger mounting accessory? 

Our '87 Fiero had 140HP and a Base VPI of 150,   The swap (205hp 3.8L V6 from a 2004 Buick Century) takes us up to a VPI of 288 the issue is that if we where to lie and say we used a OEM Supercharged 3.8L out of a 240hp 98-04 GrandPrix GTP or Regal GS the VPI jumps to 1118

I'm not looking to cheat and honestly the car is just fine with 205HP but current;y we are well under the 500point limit and I'd just like to maximize the car to the fullest extent of the rules,  I'd just like clarification on this before we commit.
 

Thanks

If you have to swap heads I'd think it would be 100 points (but you never know for sure until you hear the official response from tech.)  Also, the short block is different between the NA and SC 3800s from the factory.  SC motors had lower compression, the different heads, and forged pistons.  I don't recall if the rods and crank are forged.  I'd spend my points on headers and a cam.  If you can find them, the aftermarket aluminum heads are supposedly a pretty solid upgrade.

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20 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

If you have to swap heads I'd think it would be 100 points (but you never know for sure until you hear the official response from tech.)  Also, the short block is different between the NA and SC 3800s from the factory.  SC motors had lower compression, the different heads, and forged pistons.  I don't recall if the rods and crank are forged.  I'd spend my points on headers and a cam.  If you can find them, the aftermarket aluminum heads are supposedly a pretty solid upgrade.

The only difference in the heads are the location  of the injectors, there's no room in the lower intake for injectors & supercharger, and i think our 2004 N/A heads actualy have larger valves than the S/C counterpart.   But that's the point of my question,  I agree if we would have to eat 100 points on the heads that are required to mount the supercharger then yes I'd rather go Cam, Headers and a Trans Cooler

this engine is unique in that the Heads are required to run the S/C

 

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Uh, so you want to recreate an engine that would put you at 1100+ pts for a vpi, but want to do it without claiming that engine....

 

I hope tech closes that loophole.

 

Also, that much hp is gonna make you stop for fuel every hour or so with the stock 11.9 gallon tank.

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2 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Uh, so you want to recreate an engine that would put you at 1100+ pts for a vpi, but want to do it without claiming that engine....

 

I hope tech closes that loophole.

It's not a loophole; it's no different from anyone else using their available points to build an 1100+ point car based on actual hp.

 

Preventing a swap legal car from doing the same modifications as a non-swap car would be wrong.

 

2 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Also, that much hp is gonna make you stop for fuel every hour or so with the stock 11.9 gallon tank.

True; Fiero tanks don't inflate very well. ;)

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5 hours ago, shakenbake said:

The only difference in the heads are the location  of the injectors, there's no room in the lower intake for injectors & supercharger, and i think our 2004 N/A heads actualy have larger valves than the S/C counterpart.   But that's the point of my question,  I agree if we would have to eat 100 points on the heads that are required to mount the supercharger then yes I'd rather go Cam, Headers and a Trans Cooler

this engine is unique in that the Heads are required to run the S/C

 

Then you would have to claim the heads as well.

 

Cam, headers and engine oil cooler would be a better choice. Trans doesn't need a cooler.

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12 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Uh, so you want to recreate an engine that would put you at 1100+ pts for a vpi, but want to do it without claiming that engine....

 

I hope tech closes that loophole.

 

Also, that much hp is gonna make you stop for fuel every hour or so with the stock 11.9 gallon tank.

No because the longblock (pistons and rods) are actually diffrent, the actual OEM supercharged engine would be almost completely bulletproof and with a 25point pulley could easily make 290HP and have a VPI under 1200.   but that is not what we are after, we have a ready to race car that has a VPI right around 370, i'd like to race a 499.5 point car and if the S/C is 100pt and the heads are another 100 then we won't go that route. 

 

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10 hours ago, mender said:

Then you would have to claim the heads as well.

 

Cam, headers and engine oil cooler would be a better choice. Trans doesn't need a cooler.

I agree, I was also under the impression that a cam was 100points but I just flipped through the rules and it looks like a cam is only 50points, so that could be a more attractive option,


Like I said, we don't want to "CHEAT" but we want to, and need to bring a 500-point car to the party.

 

 

 

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This just smells like swapping a 4 cylinder e30 to a 6 cylinder and coming in at a lesser value.  That was my perspective.

 

My advice...  contact mender and find out how to make it reliable and go around corners.  Everything else is gravy!

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1 hour ago, shakenbake said:

No because the longblock (pistons and rods) are actually diffrent, the actual OEM supercharged engine would be almost completely bulletproof and with a 25point pulley could easily make 290HP and have a VPI under 1200.   but that is not what we are after, we have a ready to race car that has a VPI right around 370, i'd like to race a 499.5 point car and if the S/C is 100pt and the heads are another 100 then we won't go that route. 

 

The serious 3800SC guys ditch the factory supercharger and go turbo. You can go directly to the big power with an intercooler for 125 pts total. You can take some stuff off to get some more points for the needed engine oil cooler; my Fiero was 308 points with the LX9.

 

If the rest of the car works, you'll be showing up with a gun at a knife fight - but you'll have to reload frequently. ;) 

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6 hours ago, mender said:

The serious 3800SC guys ditch the factory supercharger and go turbo. You can go directly to the big power with an intercooler for 125 pts total. You can take some stuff off to get some more points for the needed engine oil cooler; my Fiero was 308 points with the LX9.

 

If the rest of the car works, you'll be showing up with a gun at a knife fight - but you'll have to reload frequently. ;) 

Like!  Well said.

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On 1/14/2018 at 7:48 PM, JDChristianson said:

Somebody sometime is going to build something that exposes the whoops in the turbo rule.  😛

 

My "Street" Fiero is a 3.8L swap that that has a Holset Turbo off a 2004 Dodge ram makes 711WHP and clears the 1/4 Mile in 10 sec flat,  But I can assure you that Heat Soak, Fuel economy, wheel bearings and even 4 pot Willwoods would be limiting factors on any road course ;)

 

 

 

 

 

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