takjak2 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 You will see that these graphs express finishing position (aka winning or ranking) based as a %. That is because they have been adjusted for the size of the field. Finishing in 5th place is easier in a field of 10 cars than it is in 90 cars. Finishing in the top 10% is equally difficult in either field, so this allows us to compare across races large and small. Once again, with a nice large sample size we should expect results to converge near 50%. If enough teams, pointy end or otherwise have a car that is fairly positioned on the field. If a year, make, or model averages better much better than a 40% finishing position, they probably have an innate advantage. It's easy to jump on the models that show average finishing rates around 30% and better. Get your pitchforks and call your representative and ask for VPI (coughbalanceofpowercough) changes today! However, I do need to remind you that the data available to Champcar does not include engine swaps or classing. For example, the little Honda Fits doing so well are EC cars. The 3000GT placing highly are swapped. Who knows about that 626 showing so well? We also have a preview of my next episode. Here is a visual representation of the "pointy end of the field." In the next dataset I'll be focusing on the top 50 or so teams and their strong winning rates. We'll see what cars are really favored when all cheated up and I'll tell you who the best teams actually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karman1970 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, takjak2 said: For example, the little Honda Fits doing so well are EC cars. Any way you can filter out all EC cars? They aren't really relevant for what you are trying to do, I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takjak2 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, karman1970 said: Any way you can filter out all EC cars? They aren't really relevant for what you are trying to do, I don't think. Champcar does not have that data for me. I've asked that classing and swaps be tracked better. They are still a useful part of the discussion, because they do compare to currently legal cars. If a pro team Honda Fit is an EC car, than should a certain SC300 or V6 MR2 with a stronger winning position might also be an EC car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 So get a Mazda 626 or SC300? Interesting that the SC300 is so much better record than the E36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWag Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 No swaps on any 3000GT's that I am aware of. You may be thinking of the Eclipse cheaty versions. Also you are listing a MR2 AWD twin turbo, when no such vehicle races in ChampCar (despite what some put on their entry). It is a swap, but I think this may be throwing off some of your numbers. Thanks for all the work though. It is very interesting to see the performance across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, takjak2 said: They are still a useful part of the discussion, because they do compare to currently legal cars. EC cars are completely irrelevant. Quote If a pro team Honda Fit is an EC car, than should a certain SC300 or V6 MR2 with a stronger winning position might also be an EC car? The honda fit was EC due to a technicality... could have been legal with more attention to paperwork and specific engine to swap. Also, no, just because a team beats EC cars, does not mean that team should also be EC. Were I running an EC car, I would likely run it a little easier... why push 11/10ths when there's no chance to win? Anyway, there are many reasons why including EC cars in the data is a poor idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead_42 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Yeah, I think you can lump that particular mr2 in with the rest of them... Which is gonna slew your results juuuuussst a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, enginerd said: EC cars are completely irrelevant. The honda fit was EC due to a technicality... could have been legal with more attention to paperwork and specific engine to swap. Also, no, just because a team beats EC cars, does not mean that team should also be EC. Were I running an EC car, I would likely run it a little easier... why push 11/10ths when there's no chance to win? Anyway, there are many reasons why including EC cars in the data is a poor idea. Agree Nate. Seems like there are a number of EC cars that are fast, but the teams are really there just for fun (makes sense) so strategy and stops and driving isn't really geared toward a top finish. They built something they thought would be fun not really worrying about the rules, and are out having fun with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 On 1/23/2018 at 5:11 PM, JDChristianson said: Agree Nate. Seems like there are a number of EC cars that are fast, but the teams are really there just for fun (makes sense) so strategy and stops and driving isn't really geared toward a top finish. They built something they thought would be fun not really worrying about the rules, and are out having fun with it. That statement is just as true of many non-EC cars/teams as well, how would you remove them from the results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bill Strong Posted January 25, 2018 Administrators Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 the honda fit is no longer ec either. its a legal classed bugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said: That statement is just as true of many non-EC cars/teams as well, how would you remove them from the results? I was writing a long post but decided against it... in short, I would just look at the top teams, maybe the top 75? Top 2 in each platform? Something like that? ... it is these cars who are showcasing the potential (or close to the true potential) of the platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 7 hours ago, enginerd said: I was writing a long post but decided against it... in short, I would just look at the top teams, maybe the top 75? Top 2 in each platform? Something like that? ... it is these cars who are showcasing the potential (or close to the true potential) of the platforms. Exactly. When looking at cars/platforms and analyzing their VPI you really only need to look at the best performing ones. If a team is running an E30 for example and they are not close to the performance of the top few E30 teams they have work to do and do not need to be considered when evaluating E30 points. The potential performance of each platform is what has to be "classed", not the overall performance of all the teams with a certain platform. So you're running a Miata, you need to be in the range of Miata PI, Momo Champ, RPM, and Ecotech and others I know I'm forgetting. With and E30 your benchmark's are teams like GWR, Huggins, Premium Dudes etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 9 hours ago, ABR-Glen said: That statement is just as true of many non-EC cars/teams as well, how would you remove them from the results? Easily 2/3 of any field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 On 1/23/2018 at 4:48 PM, enginerd said: Were I running an EC car, I would likely run it a little easier... why push 11/10ths when there's no chance to win? Anyway, there are many reasons why including EC cars in the data is a poor idea. Interesting philosophy. My car is EC and if I was running, I'd only be racing for the overall win (or at least win EC). Otherwise, I'd just go to a HPDE somewhere for a lot less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jab31169 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 On 1/23/2018 at 3:42 PM, turbogrill said: Interesting that the SC300 is so much better record than the E36. Is it? SC300 is a great platform, smart teams jumped on this car early and got them sorted out quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Jab31169 said: Is it? SC300 is a great platform, smart teams jumped on this car early and got them sorted out quick. the BOP between the SC300 and the e36 is not equitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 40 minutes ago, skierman64 said: the BOP between the SC300 and the e36 is not equitable. BOP? Everywhere there are E36 race cars, I rarely see SC300 race cars except in chump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted January 25, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 35 minutes ago, turbogrill said: BOP? Everywhere there are E36 race cars, I rarely see SC300 race cars except in chump. That is because fuel is so important because of 5 minute stops and long races. Hence the 944 and SC300 being the best 2 cars (assuming the -150 goes away). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 49 minutes ago, red0 said: That is because fuel is so important because of 5 minute stops and long races. Hence the 944 and SC300 being the best 2 cars (assuming the -150 goes away). Aha, good point. What is the -150? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierman64 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, turbogrill said: BOP? Balance of Performance, it's a IMSA term for what VPI attempts to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigun7469 Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 Great stuff, thank you for sharing. It will be interesting if this may effect folks on their decision on choosing a newer platform. Obviously, the newer vehicles hold advantages in production and parts availability. As Champcar continues to develop into a more serious racing, I am wondering how many Honda fits, B-specs cars, and showroom stock cars, which will probably start retiring soon will show up and if that trend will tip towards more cars in the 2000’s and less in the 90’s. How champcar will balance newer car VPI, if they can do so, balancing the many different cars. It's not a easy task with all the manufacturers being more performance orientated, Sort like how a present day Camry can beat an old F1 car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.