turbogrill Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) Hi, I am currently running megasquirt fuel only on my straight 6 but would like to update to control spark as well. I have to run wasted spark since I only have 3 spark outputs. There is a few options: LS Coils / D585: Run 6 LS coils in wasted spark. They can be feed directly from logic output. Cost: +$200 DIYAUTOTune: IGN6 Coil Quad Spark driver or home made BIP373 driver Cost: $100 - $174 1999 - 2001 Golf/Jetta: 2x 4 cyl wasted spark. (032 905 106B) Cost: $50 Engine is a datsun l28. Any advantages/disadvantages? Edited February 26, 2018 by turbogrill I need 6 LS coils... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 The LS coils can be had from fleabay for about 80$ /4 pack . Once set up for LS coils, your spares are at the auto parts store. The VW coil/module also will work and is lighter, .smaller footprint but harder to get . I just bought 2 of the VW coils for $20each , fleabay. Both are direct drive. The LS puts out a BA spark for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Can you use one of these? Millions of them out there on GM minivans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zack_280 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Ford EDIS-6 seems like it would be pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) The ford 6 pole does work.The instructions are a little more involved but easy enough . The modules and coils for the GM are expensive. Also the LS at wasted spark, still fire both plugs at the same time. If one plug gets a little fowled, both still fire. Edited February 27, 2018 by Ogren-Engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Ogren-Engineering said: The LS coils can be had from fleabay for about 80$ /4 pack . Once set up for LS coils, your spares are at the auto parts store. The VW coil/module also will work and is lighter, .smaller footprint but harder to get . I just bought 2 of the VW coils for $20each , fleabay. Both are direct drive. The LS puts out a BA spark for sure. Rock Auto sells D585 coils for under $20, I wonder if these are extreme crap or just cheap. The VW coil is very appealing for ~40 I can get a name brand, need two but still. 3 hours ago, mender said: Can you use one of these? Millions of them out there on GM minivans. 2 hours ago, zack_280 said: Ford EDIS-6 seems like it would be pretty simple. 1 hour ago, Ogren-Engineering said: The ford 6 pole does work.The instructions are a little more involved but easy enough . The modules and coils for the GM are expensive. Also the LS at wasted spark, still fire both plugs at the same time. If one plug gets a little fowled, both still fire. The nice thing with VW and LS coils is that they have builtin drivers and only requires a logic signal. So it's basiclly just a wire from Megasquirt to the coils, EDIS is a little more involved. The GM minivan require an external driver as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmabarone Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 8 hours ago, turbogrill said: Rock Auto sells D585 coils for under $20, I wonder if these are extreme crap or just cheap. The VW coil is very appealing for ~40 I can get a name brand, need two but still. The nice thing with VW and LS coils is that they have builtin drivers and only requires a logic signal. So it's basiclly just a wire from Megasquirt to the coils, EDIS is a little more involved. The GM minivan require an external driver as well. Sounds like you know more about this than I do, but EDIS-6 or some other common 6 pole coil pack was going to be my suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 LS coils are the way to go. Like the other Mike said once you have it set up you can get replacements at any parts store. You must have an older MS if it can’t do COP for a 6 cylinder. I had my own interesting and subtle problem when I was setting my MS3Pro up on the rotary. Of course rotaries always have interesting and subtle problems but this was the difference between wasted spark and COP. When I started this build I decided to get wideband O² sensors for both rotors, I wanted to eventually tune each individual rotor, but I figured that even from the start it would be interesting to log both rotors. Once I got the car running it ran great but the idle was a little rough, and watching the AFR gauges the rear rotor was reading lean and erratic, the logs showed that once it was running at higher power and RPM the difference between the front and rear rotor was less, but still there and it always came back once I was back at idle. I did the obvious first and switched both primary and secondary injectors front to rear, made no difference. My next step was to check if I had a bad plug or something with the ignition, I put the ECU in test mode and it fired the front rotor leading and trailing plugs just fine but when I tried to fire the rear leading plug it fired the front leading again. That was really strange but once I looked in the settings I saw that it was set to wasted spark instead of coil on plug, I changed that and all plugs fire as they should and it runs much better. The rear rotor was always running with retarded timing since the leading plug was never firing but as the power went up it got better because the split between leading and trailing was less. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogren-Engineering Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-Coil-Pack-for-98-01-Audi-A4-A6-Quattro-98-05-VW-Passat-2-8L-V6-UF-256/282335066634?hash=item41bc7b3a0a:g:c54AAOSwCi9Zw1fl&vxp=mtr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbirt Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 GM LZ4/LZ9 (3.5/3.9L "high value" V6) wasted spark smart coil pack. It's the modern version of the old school GM wasted spark dumb coils shown above. No, I don't know the dwell vs. volts calibration, but I'm sure you can pull it from HP Tuners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 Some good reading: http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/GM_DIS.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 10 hours ago, mbirt said: GM LZ4/LZ9 (3.5/3.9L "high value" V6) wasted spark smart coil pack. It's the modern version of the old school GM wasted spark dumb coils shown above. No, I don't know the dwell vs. volts calibration, but I'm sure you can pull it from HP Tuners. Do you know if it's driven by a logic output? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbirt Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, turbogrill said: Do you know if it's driven by a logic output? Yes, it is a smart coil. A dumb coil would have 4 pins (one +12v and 3 low side drives to the ECM), while this one has 6 (likely +12v, gnd, sig gnd, and 3 logic pins). Also, there is no chance The General added IGBTs to the E37, E38, and E67 ECMs. Search "3.9" here: https://www.efilive.com/gm-gas-vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, mender said: Some good reading: http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/GM_DIS.htm Have read that many times They list 4 logic driven coils, all are great and easy for MS. However they are not perfect for wasted 6 cyl. LS is great but might be cheaper easier options. Quality ls coils are expensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, mbirt said: Yes, it is a smart coil. A dumb coil would have 4 pins (one +12v and 3 low side drives to the ECM), while this one has 6 (likely +12v, gnd, sig gnd, and 3 logic pins). Also, there is no chance The General added IGBTs to the E37, E38, and E67 ECMs. Search "3.9" here: https://www.efilive.com/gm-gas-vehicles Thanks! Will investigate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 On 2/28/2018 at 11:34 PM, mbirt said: GM LZ4/LZ9 (3.5/3.9L "high value" V6) wasted spark smart coil pack. It's the modern version of the old school GM wasted spark dumb coils shown above. No, I don't know the dwell vs. volts calibration, but I'm sure you can pull it from HP Tuners. Having a hard time finding any information about these like pinout an such. Are they commonly used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbirt Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 44 minutes ago, turbogrill said: Having a hard time finding any information about these like pinout an such. Are they commonly used? Because it's not popular like the LS coils, this was an intermediate difficulty googling. Took about 5 minutes. Yes. From what I can see, the applications are 3.4, 3.5, 3.9, and 4.3L OHV V6. BUICK LUCERNE 2009-2011 BUICK RENDEZVOUS 2006-2007 BUICK TERRAZA 2005-2007 CHEVROLET EQUINOX 2005-2009 CHEVROLET EXPRESS 1500 2008-2014 CHEVROLET EXPRESS CARGO 2010-2014 CHEVROLET IMPALA 2006-2011 CHEVROLET MALIBU 2004-2010 CHEVROLET MONTE CARLO 2006-2007 CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 2007-2013 CHEVROLET UPLANDER 2005-2009 GMC SAVANA 1500 2008-2014 GMC SIERRA 1500 2007-2013 PONTIAC G6 2005-2010 PONTIAC MONTANA 2005-2009 PONTIAC TORRENT 2006-2009 SATURN AURA 2007-2008 SATURN RELAY 2005-2007 SATURN VUE 2008-2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 36 minutes ago, mbirt said: Because it's not popular like the LS coils, this was an intermediate difficulty googling. Took about 5 minutes. Yes. From what I can see, the applications are 3.4, 3.5, 3.9, and 4.3L OHV V6. BUICK LUCERNE 2009-2011 BUICK RENDEZVOUS 2006-2007 BUICK TERRAZA 2005-2007 CHEVROLET EQUINOX 2005-2009 CHEVROLET EXPRESS 1500 2008-2014 CHEVROLET EXPRESS CARGO 2010-2014 CHEVROLET IMPALA 2006-2011 CHEVROLET MALIBU 2004-2010 CHEVROLET MONTE CARLO 2006-2007 CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 2007-2013 CHEVROLET UPLANDER 2005-2009 GMC SAVANA 1500 2008-2014 GMC SIERRA 1500 2007-2013 PONTIAC G6 2005-2010 PONTIAC MONTANA 2005-2009 PONTIAC TORRENT 2006-2009 SATURN AURA 2007-2008 SATURN RELAY 2005-2007 SATURN VUE 2008-2009 good googling I did spend over an hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) Reviving this old post to see which setup you used and how did it work? I have my own 6cyl megasquirt project coming up soon. Edited March 27, 2020 by TimS Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) First I did the VAG and then the LS coils. Found a great bracket for LS coils and bought a set of 7 for next to nothing from ebay. I would recommend LS coils. I also reused the LS harness. What car is this? also ignition wires became a problem for me, with the LS coils that was dirt simple. Edited March 27, 2020 by turbogrill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 Bmw m20. I could recycle the wires. I would have to shorten them is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, TimS said: Bmw m20. I could recycle the wires. I would have to shorten them is all. What ECU are you picking? Seems to be a lot of options now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 I inherited a plug and play megasquirt. I believe a 2pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted March 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 hours ago, TimS said: I inherited a plug and play megasquirt. I believe a 2pro Nice! I got the micro squirt, it has enough capabilities for the engine but it lacks IO for extra stuff (like fuel pressure) Seems like you are gtg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 What brand of ls coil did you use? Delco of replacement brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.