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VPI on the 2004 Toyota Echo


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Anybody know why the VPI on the 2004 Toyota Echo is so high? It should be a 100-125 point car. It's not a 350 point car, that's for sure. I'm planning to race this car, i'm building it right now.

I'm planning to put a Japanese engine in it, going from 110 hp to 160 hp. And the usual race mods, suspension, brakes, ... etc.

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A lot of the FWD econoboxes have the wrong VPI. It's a case of nobody cares. Someone has to complain and then it goes down to 150-ish. The Aveo was 450 points and is now 100. I think a swapped Echo would make a great car. I drive a Yaris in B-Spec trim, which is a lot of fun. But it would be much better with more power, less weight, and an LSD.

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3 hours ago, drKorf said:

A lot of the FWD econoboxes have the wrong VPI. It's a case of nobody cares. Someone has to complain and then it goes down to 150-ish. The Aveo was 450 points and is now 100. I think a swapped Echo would make a great car. I drive a Yaris in B-Spec trim, which is a lot of fun. But it would be much better with more power, less weight, and an LSD.

You definitely know what you're talking about. :D That's exactly what i'm planning to do... a JDM 4A-GE 20V Blacktop high revving engine with a six speed LSD tranny...:ph34r:. The car itself is gonna be about 1800 pounds. So, should i just show up at a race and fill in a protest form or something???

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32 minutes ago, Dany Champagne said:

You definitely know what you're talking about. :D That's exactly what i'm planning to do... a JDM 4A-GE 20V Blacktop high revving engine with a six speed LSD tranny...:ph34r:. The car itself is gonna be about 1800 pounds. So, should i just show up at a race and fill in a protest form or something???

 

Just so you know,

Swapping to a JDM engine will put you into EC class, as the rules for engine swaps indicate the swap must come from a car on the VPI list.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Dany Champagne said:

You definitely know what you're talking about. :D That's exactly what i'm planning to do... a JDM 4A-GE 20V Blacktop high revving engine with a six speed LSD tranny...:ph34r:. The car itself is gonna be about 1800 pounds. So, should i just show up at a race and fill in a protest form or something???

 

Email Phil and Mike Chisek about the value prior to the race as there is no protest method for that kind of thing. Best idea is to send them all the specs you have and any info that you can give. Curb weight, hp, fuel capacity, and then anything good that might be of interest (known weak points, aftermarket support options, gutted/as raced weight, etc etc.) the more into for them the better in my mind. They are pretty reasonable about the values if are willing to work with it if there is a valid case (which there definitely is). 

 

As for the JDM engine, best is to email Phil about that for an official

word. I understand that you can use a JDM engine. In reality, what's the difference as long as you use the HP in value and it can be bought within the $1500 limit. 

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1 hour ago, zack_280 said:

Green text on this forum means you are being facetious.  

You wouldn't be so facetious if you knew how slow and worthless the MR2 is on-track. Maybe a better choice would be an '84 El Camino. 

S. 

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2 hours ago, Snorman said:

You wouldn't be so facetious if you knew how slow and worthless the MR2 is on-track. Maybe a better choice would be an '84 El Camino. 

S. 

You forgot the green font. ;)

 

I'll bet the MR2 isn't as slow and worthless as a Chevette, which has the same VPi. In fact, I'll bet a lot; I've driven both. :o

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12 hours ago, Huggy said:

 

Just so you know,

Swapping to a JDM engine will put you into EC class, as the rules for engine swaps indicate the swap must come from a car on the VPI list.

 

FYI, that is not really true. Yes, I run a USDM motor.........let's just say we'd like to avoid any Imperial entanglements. 

 

From what I have seen, if the JDM motor is the same as the USDM motor or near identical, tech will approve it as the comparable USDM motor. 

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On 3/3/2018 at 8:53 PM, Dany Champagne said:

Anybody know why the VPI on the 2004 Toyota Echo is so high? It should be a 100-125 point car. It's not a 350 point car, that's for sure. I'm planning to race this car, i'm building it right now.

I'm planning to put a Japanese engine in it, going from 110 hp to 160 hp. And the usual race mods, suspension, brakes, ... etc.

 

I just googled the car, and it looks pretty comparable to a Honda CRX. The CRX is about 2100# with 11.9 gallons and 108HP. I would think the value of the Toyota should be the same which is ~200 points IIRC. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

FYI, that is not really true. Yes, I run a USDM motor.........let's just say we'd like to avoid any Imperial entanglements. 

 

From what I have seen, if the JDM motor is the same as the USDM motor or near identical, tech will approve it as the comparable USDM motor. 

 

1. I'm not sure I follow. Can you elaborate?

2. the 4AGE blacktop wasn't offered in the US to my knowledge, and there is no "mostly equivalent USDM" engine.   

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2 hours ago, Huggy said:

1. I'm not sure I follow. Can you elaborate?

2. the 4AGE blacktop wasn't offered in the US to my knowledge, and there is no "mostly equivalent USDM" engine.   

 

1. All I am saying is "all JDM engines put you in EC" is not correct. 

 

2. I don't know anything about that specific engine. 

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19 hours ago, Snorman said:

You wouldn't be so facetious if you knew how slow and worthless the MR2 is on-track. Maybe a better choice would be an '84 El Camino. 

Agreed.  There a number of other examples that work.  If there's one thing I like, it's stirring pots and beating dead horses.  Sounds like two things, but I'm ambidextrous, so I can do them simultaneously.

 

Back on topic...

Welcome to the circus @Dany Champagne.  The Echo could be made fast and fun with more power, but it will be difficult to be competitive in Champcar due to the limited fuel capacity.  Even if you add a cell, you can only get to ~14 gallons (I think stock is about 12 gallons).  With a 160HP motor and pushing hard, you might be able to make it 1:45 minutes.  So that could work for a 7 hour race, but you will have at least one additional stop on a 2 hour race and possibly an additional stop on a 7 hr race.  Since we have 5 minute minimum fuel stops, an extra stop is difficult to overcome unless you are way faster than the competition.  I don't think that is going to be possible.  That being said, you can still make it faster than the majority of the field and have a lot of fun in the Echo.  It just depends on your goals.

 

If you are seriously considering the build, you should contact Phil or Mike about getting it lowered to something reasonable.  When you do contact them, you should have a legitimate basis (with documentation) for why the value should be whatever you think it should be.  Off the top of my head, this should be a ~100-150pt car, but my opinion is worth about as much as the hard disk space this post is using.

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1 hour ago, zack_280 said:

Agreed.  There a number of other examples that work.  If there's one thing I like, it's stirring pots and beating dead horses.  Sounds like two things, but I'm ambidextrous, so I can do them simultaneously.

Yes!

giphy.gif

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1 hour ago, zack_280 said:

Agreed.  There a number of other examples that work.  If there's one thing I like, it's stirring pots and beating dead horses.  Sounds like two things, but I'm ambidextrous, so I can do them simultaneously.

 

Back on topic...

Welcome to the circus @Dany Champagne.  The Echo could be made fast and fun with more power, but it will be difficult to be competitive in Champcar due to the limited fuel capacity.  Even if you add a cell, you can only get to ~14 gallons (I think stock is about 12 gallons).  With a 160HP motor and pushing hard, you might be able to make it 1:45 minutes.  So that could work for a 7 hour race, but you will have at least one additional stop on a 2 hour race and possibly an additional stop on a 7 hr race.  Since we have 5 minute minimum fuel stops, an extra stop is difficult to overcome unless you are way faster than the competition.  I don't think that is going to be possible.  That being said, you can still make it faster than the majority of the field and have a lot of fun in the Echo.  It just depends on your goals.

 

If you are seriously considering the build, you should contact Phil or Mike about getting it lowered to something reasonable.  When you do contact them, you should have a legitimate basis (with documentation) for why the value should be whatever you think it should be.  Off the top of my head, this should be a ~100-150pt car, but my opinion is worth about as much as the hard disk space this post is using.

I'm definitely serious about that, i was just thinking about making something different. All you see on the track are civics and BMW, :huh: ( forgot about the Miatas)! I don't know if it is going to be fast, but it will be tons of fun. Since this car is so light, it's gonna drive like a freaking go-kart :D!!! Thank for the valuable advice!

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On 3/4/2018 at 5:26 PM, Huggy said:

 

Just so you know,

Swapping to a JDM engine will put you into EC class, as the rules for engine swaps indicate the swap must come from a car on the VPI list.

 

That's an interesting take

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1 hour ago, Jamie said:

That's an interesting take

The rules state that it must come from a car on the VPI list.  I thought there was something in there saying it had to come from the USDM version, but I'm not seeing that.  Someone feel free to point it out to me.

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14 minutes ago, zack_280 said:

The rules state that it must come from a car on the VPI list.  I thought there was something in there saying it had to come from the USDM version, but I'm not seeing that.  Someone feel free to point it out to me.

 

I don't think it does. The rules lawyers somehow went down this rabbit hole. But what do I know? I'm still not even sure how to successfully protest unclaimed internal modifications on USDM engines . 

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