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Wittenauer Racing

New Team, Old car - Return of the Stupra!

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Hi All!

 

Recently a few friends (hi @jaymsu!) and I picked up an ex-chump Supra to bring back to the series this year. Car was built under the 2012 rules so lots of rule changes means we're swimming in laps (33 right now I think?) but looking forward to coming out and having some fun in the Midwest!14560143_1182277275197442_1279478664552288732_o.thumb.jpg.94d033d3c224cd62b85595e353461cc1.jpg

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I wish we could, but lots of little things to sort out first :(

 

Right now we're planning a couple test days and making our first race sometime in June (probably Ledges as it's close to home at least).

 

I know IPF is from up this way and run a Supra as well, would be cool to have 3 on a track at once!

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How have you got MORE penalty laps since the rules changes?

 

Is that engine swapped?  If so, with what engine?

 

Wanna list the mods?  I would be surprised if you have 33 penalty laps!

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Car was last raced in 2012 and then was used for instructing and open track days after that so they weren't quite as afraid to change things after that. Our plan is to do a couple test days before Ledges to get a benchmark then look at what we can pull/change/etc to bring that down some, but as it sits we have:

 

Car VPI Total 945   Penality laps 45  
           
Category VPI Description/PN Part source VPI source Date
Base car 400 87 Toyota Supra, base model   ChampCar VPi Lookup 9-Mar
Engine Swap 225   Chevy Camaro V8 Base model - 305 Hp ChampCar Swap VPi web calc 9-Mar
    87-93 are same output.... 1990 Toyota Supra, base model - 200 Hp 2018 BCCR, Rule 4.5 9-Mar
Trans Swap 25 T56 from Camaro   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
Engine Electrics 0 GM ECU+Painless harness   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
Diff Swap 25 LSD   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
Fuel tank 0 Stock MK3, 18.5 Gallons   2018 BCCR, Rule 9.10.2 9-Mar
Radiator 20 Alu replacment   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
Oil cooler 20     2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
Driver comfort 0 Mccloed shifter   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.7.2 9-Mar
Exhaust 0 Stock LS1 manifolds (part of swap value)   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.5.3 9-Mar
Suspension 40 Coilovers   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
Suspension 0 Shocks - TBD Stock for 2x rule, front 2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
      Used on car 2018 BCCR, Rule 4.8.1 9-Mar
      Stock for 2x rule, Rear 2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
      Used on car 2018 BCCR, Rule 4.8.1 9-Mar
Suspension 40 Sway bars ST Seay 2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
Body 10 Strut tower bar   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
Body ? Doors?   2018 BCCR, Rules 9.5.3/9.5.4 16-Mar
Suspension 0 Bushings (Energy Suspension Poly)   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
Brakes 20 Wilwood - need to check if meet 2x rule or not nope.... 2018 BCCR, Rule 4.8.2 9-Mar
Driver comfort 0 Cool suit system   2018 BCCR, Rule 9.19 9-Mar
Spoiler 10 Plastic   2018 BCCR, Rule 4.3.2 9-Mar
           
           
"turbo base car swap value????" 100     4-Apr

 

 

 

Looks like possibly 43 laps now thanks to the "Protests" thread, we're keeping a close eye on the whole "turbo cars Note 2" thing...

Edited by Wittenauer Racing

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A couple big questions we have right now are:

 

Side scoop- right now that big side scoop feeds air to the heater core for extra coolant cooling. Is that still legal? Is it just points for the couple sq ft of metal?

 

Doors- They've been gutted, welded shut, and a tube added across the top (mainly I think to keep from catching your suit as you get in/out). Would this also count as material? There's enough there to satisfy 9.5.3/9.5.4 and I dont think the tube is really adding anything but I want to make sure we get this all counted up right....

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Wittenauer Racing said:

A couple big questions we have right now are:

 

Side scoop- right now that big side scoop feeds air to the heater core for extra coolant cooling. Is that still legal? Is it just points for the couple sq ft of metal?

 

Doors- They've been gutted, welded shut, and a tube added across the top (mainly I think to keep from catching your suit as you get in/out). Would this also count as material? There's enough there to satisfy 9.5.3/9.5.4 and I dont think the tube is really adding anything but I want to make sure we get this all counted up right....

 

 

 

 

No way to penalize for the stock heater core doing its job as a heat exchanger, and as long as the doors are self supporting before that bar...Zero for each

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It might depend on how big the bar was and if it extended from the front strut tower to the rear shock mount, is it just to keep from catching your suit on the door? :lol: 

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6 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

It might depend on how big the bar was and if it extended from the front strut tower to the rear shock mount, is it just to keep from catching your suit on the door? :lol: 

Back in the day I was sick of my dirt co-racing hillbillys banging my regal to death, the next car got a under skin, connected to the bumpers, "bumper hoop" that went 360deg around the car... INDESTRUCTIBLE! ;)

Edited by Team Infiniti
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I'm pretty sure you are going to have to start with the 500pt turbo vpi. You could save a ton of point on your swap if you settled for a 4.8L vs the LS1. Also the LSD was optional on the NA models as well, so if you keep the 4.30 ratio you could drop those points. All that said, just starting at 500 and adding the 50pt mininum puts any swapped supra at 5+ penalty laps so might as well just call it EC and do whatever you want to it.

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58 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said:

I'm pretty sure you are going to have to start with the 500pt turbo vpi. You could save a ton of point on your swap if you settled for a 4.8L vs the LS1. Also the LSD was optional on the NA models as well, so if you keep the 4.30 ratio you could drop those points. All that said, just starting at 500 and adding the 50pt mininum puts any swapped supra at 5+ penalty laps so might as well just call it EC and do whatever you want to it.

I dont think that is happening, at least for 2018.

 

Thats the rumor I heard anyway.

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1 hour ago, Ron_e said:

It might depend on how big the bar was and if it extended from the front strut tower to the rear shock mount, is it just to keep from catching your suit on the door? :lol: 

 

Luckily for us it's pretty obvious that it only goes across the top edge of the door where the window trim would have been. Based on the old seat bracket we had to cut out (that one 6' 4" driver kinda threw a wrench into things...) it's 1" OD, 0.080 wall.

 

1 hour ago, ABR-Glen said:

I'm pretty sure you are going to have to start with the 500pt turbo vpi. You could save a ton of point on your swap if you settled for a 4.8L vs the LS1. Also the LSD was optional on the NA models as well, so if you keep the 4.30 ratio you could drop those points. All that said, just starting at 500 and adding the 50pt mininum puts any swapped supra at 5+ penalty laps so might as well just call it EC and do whatever you want to it.

 

By 4.8L, you mean the iron block truck LM right? I thought those didn't show up till 99/2000 when the C/K became the Silverado (which isnt in the VPi list)?

 

For now the 5.3 stays as it's what came in the car, but good to have some ideas for direction going forward, we had also been pondering some inlines and older 350's that would bolt up to our T56.

 

Good tip on the Diff! Our team comes from a variety of backgrounds car wise but none of us are Toyota guys, or really even LS guys for that matter. Lots of learning to do about our new platform and how the rules work....

 

In terms of running EC, why run EC instead of running D class with laps and try to catch up? None of us expect to podium (atleast anytime soon) but it's still fun to be in the running, even if "the running" for us is to see how far above last we can manage.

 

2 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I dont think that is happening, at least for 2018.

 

Thats the rumor I heard anyway.

 

On base car value/note 2 applying to swaps, we're sitting tight and waiting, I can see both sides of the argument but I'm not sure how it will shake out. Lots of teams would impacted from my understanding and the whole thread shook up things bad enough to be locked without any official ruling. With Daytona fast approaching hopefully there will be some clarification soon, but I'd really rather not get into that whole thing here.

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Yeah, I keep forgetting the C/K and Silverado were both sold in 99, so the 4.8 isn't on the VPI table. To that point though, neither is the 5.3, only the 5.7 in the Camaro, right? Other cars have been added to the VPI list at the request of people that wanted to use the motor, so it's still not a dead-end. 

 

In my opinion running with that many penalty laps sucks, you'll be at the bottom of the timesheet all day only moving up a spot when somebody breaks down and mentally doing the math of what position you'd be in if you didn't have the laps. You can still "podium" in EC, if we can get past the stigma of it being a bad thing then more people with cars like your will run it. It sounds like you'll be building the car the way you want either way, so no problem to try D class first, but I think you'll see what I mean. 

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8 hours ago, ABR-Glen said:

Sounds like a blast, be sure to post any open seats!

 

Will Do!

 

Progress update- Fixed brake lights (nothing like some good old fashion dodgy wiring combined with LED's to make troubleshooting interesting....), and removed the front strut tower brace.

 

Do those ones adjustable ones with the Heim joints at the end even do anything? Seems like it would just be a big parallelogram.....

 

 

@SiberianDVM - Do you have a set of stock springs you could measure the OD/ID/wire sizes for us? We didnt get any of the old parts with the car (just a couple spare rear half shafts, knuckles and brake pads), and our shocks are basically shot. Hoping to find something that fits the bill and also fits the "OE coil springs" exemption since we need to do shocks anyways so we can drop those points...

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A strut tower brace with Heim's just adds weight, think of a box with hinges on the corners and apply a side force - useless. 

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22 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

A strut tower brace with Heim's just adds weight, think of a box with hinges on the corners and apply a side force - useless. 

 

Yep, that's what i figured, it's in the junk box now :)

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I don't have stock springs, sorry, and I stupidly tossed them years ago.

 

We run H&R race springs on Bilstein B6 struts, which can be difficult and expensive to find. I can measure the H&Rs for you. I got them at THMotorsports. They also have Tokico Blue shocks, Konis (which are adjustable and will add points). I ended up getting the Bilis from ebay.

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8 minutes ago, Wittenauer Racing said:

 

Yep, that's what i figured, it's in the junk box now :)

 

They sell for some dollars though, it should be easy to unload as it looks cool, (you don't have the points for it on your race car is your excuse).

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10 minutes ago, SiberianDVM said:

I don't have stock springs, sorry, and I stupidly tossed them years ago.

 

We run H&R race springs on Bilstein B6 struts, which can be difficult and expensive to find. I can measure the H&Rs for you. I got them at THMotorsports. They also have Tokico Blue shocks, Konis (which are adjustable and will add points). I ended up getting the Bilis from ebay.

 

If you could please, that would be appreciated. I have plenty of random parts from other projects so I'm hoping maybe I have something that is close to what we need....

 

In terms of shocks (and the 2x rule in general), is it just the most expensive KYB/Monroe from whoever is charging the most (between O'Rilleys, AZ, Advance and Napa)? In our case  Advance has Monroe's as cheap as $42/each but when I go over to AZ I see KYB Excel's all the way up at $75....

 

And I assume the new "2x" upgrade part is the new part price, even if we got them used (or they came with the car)?

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