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High Temp Thread locker - No, not Bill

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Morning fellow Champs.  

 

We had 3 of the four caliper bolts decide they liked Daytona so much that they removed themselves from the calipers while on track.  Our guy swears hey used loctite during re-assembly.  We are wondering if anyone has any experience/suggestions on wether we should switch to a high temp thread locker, or what they use to make sure things stay fastened.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

 

Justin

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E30 or E36?  I dont locktite the slide pin bolts on the E30, but I do locktite the caliper bracket bolts with green.

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Thread lock and safety wire here.  Lost a caliper once, do not want that to happen again.

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Two e30 teams I’ve been on have had no issues running no loctite. 

 

BTW, can you maybe PM or even make a post on what you used to make your number panel LED numbers when you have time? Was a discussion on our team about doing something similar.

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Make sure the threads are clean, or the Loctite won't work very well (unless of course it's the oil resistant flavor). I do a quick wire brush and a shot a brake cleaner on anything to get Loctite.

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50 minutes ago, RVA Graphics & Wraps said:

Morning fellow Champs.  

 

We had 3 of the four caliper bolts decide they liked Daytona so much that they removed themselves from the calipers while on track.  Our guy swears hey used loctite during re-assembly.  We are wondering if anyone has any experience/suggestions on wether we should switch to a high temp thread locker, or what they use to make sure things stay fastened.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

 

Justin

- Turn the wrench harder next time. No amount of Loctite will save you from an undertightened bolt. As a general rule of thumb, there is no downside to putting more torque on a bolt... if you don't break it during assembly, it won't break in use. And if you do break it assembling, then you know how much is too much for next time! I (almost) always tighten things well beyond the recommended torque in the manual, flywheel bolts are one exception.

- If the "nut member" material is aluminium, be careful of thread stripping (when over-torquing) as this can be much harder to detect than a broken off bolt head.

- The design goal with bolts is not "tighten it so it doesn't unscrew", it is "tighten it so that there is a very high normal force between the two mating components. Friction will then prevent them from moving relative to each other. More normal force leads to more friction. If the two surfaces (caliper and caliper bracket) shift because there isn't enough friction in the joint, the bolt will start to loosen and unscrew on successive 'shifts'.

Edited by enginerd
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We have not been using loctite on the caliper mounting bolts and haven't had any issues.  Well, we did lose a caliper at Sebring.  That was because I discovered that the shock mount was loose while I was torquing the rear caliper bracket.  I checked the shock, tightened it, and then forgot about the caliper bracket. Made for an interesting moment in T1 when the rear caliper fell off and jammed itself between the hub and wheel.  The wheel was toast, the heat shield was mangled, and I believe the brake pads were trashed, but the caliper and brake lines somehow survived.  

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I hearken back to my Karting roots, I cotter pin or safety wire everything brakes or steering related...  Find this important when working with aluminum as it expands differently than the steel bolts used to fasten it, they work loose...

 

For our caliper bolts, we use socket head cap screws with a safety wire hole in them.

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I agree on giving the faster a little more grunt.  I am usually the one on the team that is called into action to free a stuck faster, or make sure what we put on is as tight as it can be.

 

Regarding lights, the link below is what we have been buying from Amazon.  Works perfectly if all of your numbers are straight, like 111, not so much on anything else.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71HYaVR4-6L._SL1001_.jpg

 

 We bought some of these12V LED rope type lights as well, which turned out to be junk.  The flickered for a few minutes than went out.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071WRWJH4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

If anyone finds a good flexible light tape I would be interested as well.

 

Justin 

 

 

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Loctite is a reasonable solution for caliper bolts coming loose, it's called for by a few different manufacturers. Obviously there are many ways to skin a cat, and I'd always listen to what Nathan recommends. It doesn't look like anyone answered you - I'd use Loctite 272.

Edited by Slugworks Paul

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I think many of the codes refer to different bottle sizes of the same product. Use one of the ones which says “threadlocker” and “high temp”.

 

You could also use some other kind of glue which doesn’t need exposure to air to cure (I think epoxies fit the bill, but they are also expensive and annoying to work with)... loctite is hella expensive because it’s a special anaerobic cure adhesive catalyzed by iron. In layman’s terms: only cures when it’s in the joint. Won’t work very well on zinc plated screws (50% the strength of a plain unfinished bolt IIRC). I have used JB-weld on a few fasteners that I didn’t want coming apart and knew I would never want to take apart.

Edited by enginerd

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We have moved away from loctite in all of our suspension bolts in favor of this: Vibratite VC-3.

https://www.amazon.com/Vibra-TITE-213-Threadmate-Threadlocker-Degree/dp/B008D6GHY6/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1523347537&sr=1-1&keywords=Vibratite+vc3

 

Its a very different product than loctite, you paint it on a clean bolt, and it effectively makes the bolt a nylock, and it its just as reusable as a nylock nut.  Wait 10 min for a full cure and install...

 

We found continued issues with appling new loctice over old loctite without good cleaning, and use in oily environents (even green loctite)

 

The high temp version would be VibraTite 13750, which i have not used yet.

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The ultra high temp threadlocker only goes to 650 degrees.  Do calipers get that hot?  I am pretty sure mine have....

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11 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

The ultra high temp threadlocker only goes to 650 degrees.  Do calipers get that hot?  I am pretty sure mine have....

 

The air was quite wavy around your calipers at Gingerman. 

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15 hours ago, enginerd said:

I think many of the codes refer to different bottle sizes of the same product. Use one of the ones which says “threadlocker” and “high temp”.

 

 

Wrong - not with loctite. FAKE NEWS!

 

I changed my mind - don't listen to Nate. I guess he knows about fasteners but not locking fluids. It works fine on Zinc bolts.

Edited by Slugworks Paul

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1 hour ago, wvumtnbkr said:

The ultra high temp threadlocker only goes to 650 degrees.  Do calipers get that hot?  I am pretty sure mine have....

 

lol - I sure hope you're using some unobtanium brake fluid because most boil before that.

 

In short, no, highly unlikely your caliper bodies (and knuckles, since that's what the bolts hold it to) have a consistent temperature of above 650. If so, you've probably got lots of other problems besides your caliper bolts coming loose :)

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28 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:

 

lol - I sure hope you're using some unobtanium brake fluid because most boil before that.

 

In short, no, highly unlikely your caliper bodies (and knuckles, since that's what the bolts hold it to) have a consistent temperature of above 650. If so, you've probably got lots of other problems besides your caliper bolts coming loose :)

Yep, like no brakes for the last hour of a race at gingerman...

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Just now, wvumtnbkr said:

Yep, like no brakes for the last hour of a race at gingerman...

 

your brakes would give out before the bolt would vibrate loose. 

Solve the big problems (cause) before the little ones (secondary side effect) and you might do better :)

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