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Fuel for points possible petition


Ron_e
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Fuel for points possible petition  

72 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you in favour of a petition for fuel for points?

    • Yes. fuel for points with the formula sounds reasonable.
      28
    • No, absolutely not, never.
      33
    • Maybe with some modification.
      10


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Mender recently proposed a fuel for points modified formula to help fuel limited teams get to two hours instead of spending money on various speed parts to try to be competitive.  I have provided numerous example of where the Mustang was competitive but is no longer.  Some example of how the formula would work:

 

E36 M52B25

18.4 gallons: no change in points

19.4 gallons: 60 points

20.4 gallons: 175 points

 

Miata

13.9 gallons: no change in points

14.9 gallons: 136 points

15.9 gallons: 396 points

 

'86 Regal: 19.7 gallons, 3121 lbs:

21.7 gallons: no points

22.7 gallons: 140 points

 

Mustang: 15.4 gallons, 2772 lbs:

17.4 gallons: no extra points

18.4 gallons:  20 points

19.4 gallons: 73 points

20.4 gallons: 203 points

 

SC300, 20.6 gallons and 3145 lbs.

22.6 gallons: no extra points

23.6 gallons: 113 points

 

1987 RX7, 16.4 gallons, 2560 lbs (237 less than E36)

18.4 gallons: no extra points

19.4 gallons: 292 points

 

E30, 16.4 gallons and 2731 lbs

18.4 gallonsno points

19.4 gallons: 98 points

20.4 gallons: 258 points

 

1979 Trans Am, 21 gallons, 3145 lbs

23 gallons free/allowed

24 gallons 305 points

 

1988 Fiero 11.9 gallons, 2512 lbs

13.9 gallons free

14.9 gallons free

15.9 gallons 4 points

16.9 gallons 26 points

 

These volumes are the result of using the swap formula and inputting the fuel amounts multiplied by a factor (11.5x) as the final hp number.  If there is interest and support I will do a petition.  All cars would still be allowed stock +2 gallons plus 0.5 gallon surge as before, this is to allow the fuel limited (FL) teams to use points for fuel instead of points for speed parts to compete with the fuel rich (FR) teams.

Edited by Ron_e
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8 minutes ago, Weasil said:

You choose your car now live with the consiquiences..

 

I chose my car based on 2014 rules.  The rules changed in 2017.  Telling people to live with the consequences of rule changes that make their vehicle an also-ran is equivalent to simply writing cars out of the series and I would say not a sound business model.  For reference see what happened when the E36 was written out.

Edited by Ron_e
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This prompted me to review the VPI and stats on the mustang... and it looks really good to me!

 

I would swap in one of the aluminium block BMW in-line 6 engines in the 210-220 HP range (I think there’s one in that range). This takes up to around 100 points. Add trans and diff for good measure. You’ve now got over 100 points to burn on suspension.

 

Compared to the e30 (common podium car) this new mustang has 40-50 more HP, about equal weight, 1.2 fewer gallons of fuel so you will need an extra stop. But if you can’t make up one extra stop with 40 more HP then it must be a really terrible handling car!

 

I think the super low VPI more than makes up for the extra pit stop. I might even consider a mustang if I had to build another car!

 

On paper I think low VPI makes up for lack of fuel and I would not support such a petition. 

Edited by enginerd
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4 minutes ago, enginerd said:

This prompted me to review the VPI and stats on the mustang... and it looks really good to me!

 

On paper I think low VPI makes up for lack of fuel and I would not support such a petition. 

 

Exactly why in 2016 Mike was going to raise it by 50 points while lowering many others, on paper it looks like a deal but it isn't.

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1 hour ago, enginerd said:

I would swap in one of the aluminium block BMW in-line 6 engines in the 210-220 HP range (I think there’s one in that range). This takes up to around 100 points. Add trans and diff for good measure. You’ve now got over 100 points to burn on suspension.

 

Same weight, same hp, 85 less torque, still have to take one extra stop for fuel... not a good swap as car would be slower.  We could probably just pull a plug wire and accomplish the same thing.

Edited by Ron_e
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50 minutes ago, enginerd said:

On paper I think low VPI makes up for lack of fuel and I would not support such a petition. 

On track is different than on paper. ;)

 

One race with 1:30 stints for everyone. Easy to do and so informative for all. I wonder how many teams would decline to race on "principal"? Possibly the ones voting nay?:P 

 

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1 minute ago, mender said:

How about an LS? They're very popular for swapping into all sorts of cars; older GMs, Mustangs, BMWs ... B)

Nah. The fuel rich guys are obviously already feeling threatened with the prospect of a level playing field.

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30 minutes ago, RandomTask said:

Corvette -

20 gallons: no points

22 gallons: no points

40 gallons: no points. 

180 gallons: 2 points. 

 

Looks good to me. 

You take all or nothing, you start the race with a full tank and you have to top up every 2 hours. :P

 

Be careful what you ask for ...

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42 minutes ago, RandomTask said:

Corvette -

20 gallons: no points

22 gallons: no points

40 gallons: no points. 

180 gallons: 2 points. 

 

Looks good to me. 

 

Year?  I think you forgot the multiplier.  

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1 hour ago, karman1970 said:

Since the original rule on fuel is so sacred, why not forsake trying to advance and improve the series and go back to the ALL the sacred original rules? Heck, I would much rather go back to cost-only-based engine swaps.

 

The cost based formula makes the iron block LS motors feasible in a large number of cars. Find rare car, swap LS in, victory. Or watch the rule change again...

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1 hour ago, CBraden said:

 

The cost based formula makes the iron block LS motors feasible in a large number of cars. Find rare car, swap LS in, victory. Or watch the rule change again...

The hp based formula levels the top part of field by equalizing PWR and is very popular with the top teams.

 

Edited by mender
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1 hour ago, CBraden said:

 

The cost based formula makes the iron block LS motors feasible in a large number of cars. Find rare car, swap LS in, victory. Or watch the rule change again...

I was being facetious, I like the new swap rule even if it did kill a couple sweet combinations I had thought up :)

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5 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

I was being facetious, I like the new swap rule even if it did kill a couple sweet combinations I had thought up :)

It also eliminated my ability to swap in a more fuel efficient engine even though it was and still is within the price range. $600 but it wasn't on the VPi list. 

 

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5 hours ago, BDG said:

 

28uzni.jpg

 

A rule change that does not affect the majority of the cars that are fuel rich.  A rule change that helps the fuel limited thereby having a minor effect on the fuel rich by bringing the fuel limited back into the race for the podium which is better racing.  If this rule was voted in then you can feel free to ignore it as it would only be a concern of the fuel limited.

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