Suspensions For Inaccurate Tech Sheets or Blatant Cheating

[Racer7x]

 

Should there be an addition to the BCCR for this?

 

I don't think there currently is and this might make every team a little more accountable for what they bring to the track and claim as a 500pt car or less or think twice about gaming the current rules and system in place.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Racer7x

[Team Infiniti]

I think a DQ after a full day of trials/tribulations is sufficient rather then chase off paying customers (even less then honest ones)

[Racer7x]

2 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

I think a DQ after a full day of trials/tribulations is sufficient rather then chase off paying customers (even less then honest ones)

 

 

how about being put in the penalty box and having to be dropped to ec class for 12 months

 

[Ron_e]

After a DQ they need to commit to reading the forum for the next month.  Tuttle seems to have recovered and I think had a clean race?

 

Suspension for inaccurate tech sheet seems harsh.  I am the team captain but not always at the work sessions between the races and occasionally the team slips in a bit of extra material and forgets to tell me.  I leave a few spare points on our tech sheet for material added.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Ron_e

[Racer7x]

 

understandable, but a no consequence attitude is what leads to this forum banter.

 

having to drop to ec class for a year doesn't seem to harsh and would help persuade teams on the fence about not playing by the rules second thought.

 

oh, and I just found out I could undertray my whole car for 10pts even though the rules only address front and rear spoilers

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Racer7x

[JDChristianson]

Seems to me it's a make the penalty fit the crime thing.   

 

Forgeting to list 5 pts of material is different than premeditated malicious claiming a big engine is a little engine sort of inaccuracy. 

[TBone]

Actual suspension should be reserved for dangerous driving. 

 

Question: if it's a bump to EC for a year, is it the car and all the drivers, the car only, the car and the signer of the tech sheet, etc.?

[Black Magic]

Having to show up early to retech after having your yearly tech sticker yanked would enough of a pita to take care of it.

[Racer7x]

On 5/5/2018 at 8:48 AM, JDChristianson said:

Seems to me it's a make the penalty fit the crime thing.   

 

Forgeting to list 5 pts of material is different than premeditated malicious claiming a big engine is a little engine sort of inaccuracy. 

 

 

forgetting to list points?

 

kinda like claiming a 490pt car at safety tech when it is actually a 590pt swapped motor car under the auspicious of wanting to have more fun. there needs to be some accountability.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Racer7x

[JDChristianson]

12 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

forgetting to list points?

 

 

 

I thought I said forgetting to list 5pts

[Racer7x]

20 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

I thought I said forgetting to list 5pts

 

 

and how do you forget to list 5 points? there's another word for forget. gaming is a lot nicer of a word than cheating

 

last time I checked forget doesn't fly when it comes to following rules and regulations. 

 

didn't lemons racing crush a car when a team forgot to list something back in the day?

 

we're all racers and want to have fun and be competitive, but monitoring that everyone is playing on the same field and rules are being enforced seems to currently be a 2nd thought.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Racer7x

[JDChristianson]

5 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

and how do you forget to list 5 points. there's another word for forget. gaming is a lot nicer of a word than cheating

 

last time I checked forget doesn't fly when it comes to following rules and regulations. 

 

didn't lemons racing crush a car when a team forgot to list something back in the day?

 

 

I'm just clearly not as damn perfect as you.  Most humans could even make a 5 pt error in math.   

 

If I show up with what think is a 500 pt car and I've screwed up the math by 5 pts it should be corrected and I get a penalty lap at 505 pts.  If I show up claiming 499 and I have an misrepresented my engine by 100 pts. "Forgot" to note my trans and diff swaps for another 50pts and so on then that's malicious cheating and I should either be asked to go home or moved to EC for a year.   

 

 

[Racer7x]

 

 

not perfect at all, but go run a 800 cfm carb in the 750 cfm class at your local roundy round track and see what happens when you forgot you put that slightly larger carb on and get checked. a lot of tracks and series have a no tolerance rule to persuade people from forgetting things on their cars.

 

I guess I'm a little salty because I'm still waiting to hear some clarification from the champ management @Bill Strong from the daytona race 4 weeks ago that they found a top placing car/team that had inaccurately disclosed their cars tech sheet points value by 100 points after the race was over and they were being dq'd or being reclassified in the finishing order by 10 spots.

 

thats management being accountable to the other 300+ teams that support the series.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Racer7x

[Ron_e]

1 hour ago, JDChristianson said:

I'm just clearly not as damn perfect as you.  Most humans could even make a 5 pt error in math.   

 

If I show up with what think is a 500 pt car and I've screwed up the math by 5 pts it should be corrected and I get a penalty lap at 505 pts.  If I show up claiming 499 and I have an misrepresented my engine by 100 pts. "Forgot" to note my trans and diff swaps for another 50pts and so on then that's malicious cheating and I should either be asked to go home or moved to EC for a year.   

 

 

 

What are your thoughts about a penalty back when non-OE ECU's were 75 points and Tubby "forgot" that his was non-OE?

[Racer7x]

 

I don't go that far back, but having to drop to ec class for the year will give car owners/teams 2nd thoughts about gaming the system since it is a "take my word" current format and having no scrutineering currently in place.

 

if you mislead on your tech sheet or blatantly cheat, there should be some penalty of consequence in the bccr like having to drop to ec for a 12 month period. there currently are none written in the rules.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Racer7x

[JDChristianson]

36 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

 

What are your thoughts about a penalty back when non-OE ECU's were 75 points and Tubby "forgot" that his was non-OE?

Didn't they get a DSQ ? Seemed appropriate.     I also thought it was a serious load of fertilizer that he claimed he didn't know about it.   sorta was a ding to his credibility. 

[Ray Franck]

10 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

I don't go that far back, but having to drop to ec class for the year will give car owners/teams 2nd thoughts about gaming the system since we have no scrutineering currently in place.

 

   If you had to tech your car at every event you run would that be scrutineering ?   But you are correct there is no  penalty standard ..  looks like petition time is starting early ..

[Ron_e]

20 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

Didn't they get a DSQ ? Seemed appropriate.     I also thought it was a serious load of fertilizer that he claimed he didn't know about it.   sorta was a ding to his credibility. 

 

DQ for just that race I believe.  That was Friday, Saturday and Sunday at the same race they were regular class again I believe.  July 2015 Laguna.

[Bill Strong]

ChampCar now has a process for Race and Impound Infractions

1. The event Tech Lead and event director will fill out a CCES internal form describing the issue, what took place between individuals and CCES officials.

2. The marketing director will take that information along with information from the event director and make a press release.

3. This press release will be released to the membership via posts on CCES Facebook, CCES Twitter. CCES Google+, the forum after event post, and the website blog.

4. This will be completed within 24-hours of the incident. If we do not have Internet access it will be updated as soon as we have access. Ideally, the issue will be resolved and a report filed before CCES Officials leave the track.

5. This will be the official word from ChampCar.  Any questions will be directed to the Marketing Director. 

the press release will be a summary of what happened and what actions were taken. 

the press release, internal form, and all info pertaining to the issue will be kept with the event records at CCES HQ for future reference.

 

[Racer7x]

1 hour ago, Bill Strong said:

ChampCar now has a process for Race and Impound Infractions

1. The event Tech Lead and event director will fill out a CCES internal form describing the issue, what took place between individuals and CCES officials.

2. The marketing director will take that information along with information from the event director and make a press release.

3. This press release will be released to the membership via posts on CCES Facebook, CCES Twitter. CCES Google+, the forum after event post, and the website blog.

4. This will be completed within 24-hours of the incident. If we do not have Internet access it will be updated as soon as we have access. Ideally, the issue will be resolved and a report filed before CCES Officials leave the track.

5. This will be the official word from ChampCar.  Any questions will be directed to the Marketing Director. 

the press release will be a summary of what happened and what actions were taken. 

the press release, internal form, and all info pertaining to the issue will be kept with the event records at CCES HQ for future reference.

 

 

 

Thank you for the quick response kind sir. (kissing up with sarcasm)

 

You are a scholar and a gentleman, even though you currently have an unhealthy bromance with a particular Japanese minivan

 

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Racer7x

[Bill Strong]

If this vans a-rockin'...

there is probably something wrong with it.

[wvumtnbkr]

7 hours ago, Bill Strong said:

If this vans a-rockin'...

there is probably something wrong with it.

Or Tyler is driving it....