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What a race for first place! Eight full hours of contention between 1st and 2nd, and between 3rd and 4th.

 

Congratulations to Team 160 Son of Andre for a hard fought Victory!

 

And a huge thank you to all the Corner Workers, safety team, and staff at ThunderHill Raceway that helped keep our Race safe and fun, and to all the Teams who came out here to make this event as much fun as it is.

The Race Results are in!

They can be found online at:

https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Events/1520405

And you can download Lap times and Results from Google at:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y-9sq1ru30riTAygPDopXSLU242A47I4

See you at tomorrows race.

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Wow, a mustang won an 8 hour race.  I thought that wasn't possible...  green font...

 

Good job sons of andre!

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42 minutes ago, DEE DEE said:

Why surprised that an American car won ?

No, because we've been relentlessly told over the last few months that it was impossible  😎

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4 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Wow, a mustang won an 8 hour race.  I thought that wasn't possible...  green font...

 

Good job sons of andre!

 

Uhm, OK, in a grand total field of 15 runners.  Time to look at the lap analysis.

 

The top three cars all managed a three stop race without any extra downtime and there was minimal interference with yellows which allows an easy look at average driver lap times.

 

In the first stint SoA put their fast driver in likely hoping for a late race start and they lucked out there.  First driver average SoA 1:30.5, Arsenic 1:31.1, Roto 1:35.1.  SoA managed to run 1h50 but that didn't hurt the 2 hour strategy thanks to the late race start at 8:07 AM.  Arsenic ran the full 2 hours giving them the option of a higher probability of a yellow flag stop for their next pits.  Roto ran 1h55.

 

Driver two average SoA 1:30.4, Arsenic 1:34.5, Roto 1:35.5.  Of significant note here SoA pits 2 minutes before the lunch break, I would assume they had to for fuel, all other cars make up one lap but SoA maintains the lead due to their superior average lap pace balanced against fuel consumption and stopping early.  To SoA's benefit the lunch break also starts 4 minutes early so they only lose one lap.  Driver 2 stint SoA 1h50 again, then Arsenic and Roto run short stints due to the break, 1:40, 1:45 respectively.

 

After the lunch break SoA fuels immediately while Arsenic puts in 1 lap before pitting and Roto does 5 laps before pitting.  Arsenic loses another 1-2 laps on a fuel stop that runs an extra 2.5 minutes.

 

Driver three average SoA 1:32.5, Arsenic 1:31.3, Roto 1:34.7.  SoA's slower pace this stint allows them to run a full stint, as do all others as needed.  Arsenic makes up a lap but it is not enough as Arsenic lost too much time with their second driver and the long second fuel stop.

 

Driver four average SoA 1:35.7, Arsenic 1:34.7, Roto 1:36.3.  Everybody can do full stints at that pace and Arsenic cannot make up the laps lost in the second stint and fueling.

 

Note on the average lap times the three yellow laps shortly after the lunch break were omitted.

 

So SoA had to depend on luck for a late race start, an early lunch break, along with hoping for Arsenic to have a slower driver, and maybe a long fuel stop.  All four came into play and SoA won by two laps.  Without superior drivers, luck on timing, the main competitor losing time with a slow driver, and the main competitor losing time in a slow pit stop SoA would have been in second place.  In a straight up race the Mustang would not have won due to fuel limitation while Arsenic would have won.

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29 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

 

Uhm, OK, in a grand total field of 15 runners.  Time to look at the lap analysis.

 

The top three cars all managed a three stop race without any extra downtime and there was minimal interference with yellows which allows an easy look at average driver lap times.

 

In the first stint SoA put their fast driver in likely hoping for a late race start and they lucked out there.  First driver average SoA 1:30.5, Arsenic 1:31.1, Roto 1:35.1.  SoA managed to run 1h50 but that didn't hurt the 2 hour strategy thanks to the late race start at 8:07 AM.  Arsenic ran the full 2 hours giving them the option of a higher probability of a yellow flag stop for their next pits.  Roto ran 1h55.

 

Driver two average SoA 1:30.4, Arsenic 1:34.5, Roto 1:35.5.  Of significant note here SoA pits 2 minutes before the lunch break, I would assume they had to for fuel, all other cars make up one lap but SoA maintains the lead due to their superior average lap pace balanced against fuel consumption and stopping early.  To SoA's benefit the lunch break also starts 4 minutes early so they only lose one lap.  Driver 2 stint SoA 1h50 again, then Arsenic and Roto run short stints due to the break, 1:40, 1:45 respectively.

 

After the lunch break SoA fuels immediately while Arsenic puts in 1 lap before pitting and Roto does 5 laps before pitting.  Arsenic loses another 1-2 laps on a fuel stop that runs an extra 2.5 minutes.

 

Driver three average SoA 1:32.5, Arsenic 1:31.3, Roto 1:34.7.  SoA's slower pace this stint allows them to run a full stint, as do all others as needed.  Arsenic makes up a lap but it is not enough as Arsenic lost too much time with their second driver and the long second fuel stop.

 

Driver four average SoA 1:35.7, Arsenic 1:34.7, Roto 1:36.3.  Everybody can do full stints at that pace and Arsenic cannot make up the laps lost in the second stint and fueling.

 

Note on the average lap times the three yellow laps shortly after the lunch break were omitted.

 

So SoA had to depend on luck for a late race start, an early lunch break, along with hoping for Arsenic to have a slower driver, and maybe a long fuel stop.  All four came into play and SoA won by two laps.  Without superior drivers, luck on timing, the main competitor losing time with a slow driver, and the main competitor losing time in a slow pit stop SoA would have been in second place.  In a straight up race the Mustang would not have won due to fuel limitation while Arsenic would have won.

Let me summarize...

 

A car won and everybody else didn't due to execution....

 

Weird. 

 

This just reminds me of everybody complaining that the Honda's needed fixed because they couldn't win.  Then 2 teams built Honda's and mopped up in every race.

 

I get that there is a fuel inequality.  

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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33 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

 

 

So SoA had to depend on luck for a late race start, an early lunch break, along with hoping for Arsenic to have a slower driver, and maybe a long fuel stop.  All four came into play and SoA won by two laps.  Without superior drivers, luck on timing, the main competitor losing time with a slow driver, and the main competitor losing time in a slow pit stop SoA would have been in second place.  In a straight up race the Mustang would not have won due to fuel limitation while Arsenic would have won.

Dude give it a break. 

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28 minutes ago, shutupracing said:

Dude give it a break. 

 

Oh OK, a 15 car field proves everything and I will sit in the fuel penalty box for another 1.5 years before saying anything again.   I will hope for luck as a crutch or odd hour races to win as opposed to parts selection, driver skill, or build effort.  Or maybe a better solution is to spend $8,000 just to get more fuel in the same car, yeah, that is a really good solution, super awesome dude.

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6 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

.  Or maybe a better solution is to spend $8,000 just to get more fuel in the same car,

Cannibalizing mustang/replacing with larger shell of tbird cost that much?

 

Yes I would fit the cage from one to the other...

 

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1 hour ago, Ron_e said:

 

Uhm, OK, in a grand total field of 15 runners.  Time to look at the lap analysis.

 

The top three cars all managed a three stop race without any extra downtime and there was minimal interference with yellows which allows an easy look at average driver lap times.

 

In the first stint SoA put their fast driver in likely hoping for a late race start and they lucked out there.  First driver average SoA 1:30.5, Arsenic 1:31.1, Roto 1:35.1.  SoA managed to run 1h50 but that didn't hurt the 2 hour strategy thanks to the late race start at 8:07 AM.  Arsenic ran the full 2 hours giving them the option of a higher probability of a yellow flag stop for their next pits.  Roto ran 1h55.

 

Driver two average SoA 1:30.4, Arsenic 1:34.5, Roto 1:35.5.  Of significant note here SoA pits 2 minutes before the lunch break, I would assume they had to for fuel, all other cars make up one lap but SoA maintains the lead due to their superior average lap pace balanced against fuel consumption and stopping early.  To SoA's benefit the lunch break also starts 4 minutes early so they only lose one lap.  Driver 2 stint SoA 1h50 again, then Arsenic and Roto run short stints due to the break, 1:40, 1:45 respectively.

 

After the lunch break SoA fuels immediately while Arsenic puts in 1 lap before pitting and Roto does 5 laps before pitting.  Arsenic loses another 1-2 laps on a fuel stop that runs an extra 2.5 minutes.

 

Driver three average SoA 1:32.5, Arsenic 1:31.3, Roto 1:34.7.  SoA's slower pace this stint allows them to run a full stint, as do all others as needed.  Arsenic makes up a lap but it is not enough as Arsenic lost too much time with their second driver and the long second fuel stop.

 

Driver four average SoA 1:35.7, Arsenic 1:34.7, Roto 1:36.3.  Everybody can do full stints at that pace and Arsenic cannot make up the laps lost in the second stint and fueling.

 

Note on the average lap times the three yellow laps shortly after the lunch break were omitted.

 

So SoA had to depend on luck for a late race start, an early lunch break, along with hoping for Arsenic to have a slower driver, and maybe a long fuel stop.  All four came into play and SoA won by two laps.  Without superior drivers, luck on timing, the main competitor losing time with a slow driver, and the main competitor losing time in a slow pit stop SoA would have been in second place.  In a straight up race the Mustang would not have won due to fuel limitation while Arsenic would have won.

Excellent analysis ! Thanks for the write up.

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1 hour ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Let me summarize...

 

A car won and everybody else didn't due to execution....

 

Weird. 

 

This just reminds me of everybody complaining that the Honda's needed fixed because they couldn't win.  Then 2 teams built Honda's and mopped up in every race.

 

I get that there is a fuel inequality.  

No different than a Fiero winning a 6 hour race by executing perfect pit stops and stints when the other 22 teams didn't.  Just proves that no matter how improbable, sometimes the underdog can win.

 

I wonder if those winning Hondas had the secret ballooned fuel tank mod ...  ;)

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22 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Cannibalizing mustang/replacing with larger shell of tbird cost that much?

 

Yes I would fit the cage from one to the other...

 

 

You spend $100, I spend $130 to buy the same thing IF it is in Canada.  If I have to ship as well then there are border fee duties that add another $70.  So yes, around 1.5X your cost.

 

New cell would be $2,500 CDN.  82-88 TBird/Cougar in decent enough shape are extremely rare, good luck finding one in Canada relatively rust free so you are not replacing frame rails and entire floor pans.  Find a car, say $1,500 CDN.  We are not welders so to install the cage say $1,500 to mount in new shell, redo the rear stays, redo the front bars to the strut towers, make the frame for the cell, replace the bumpers.  Replace windshield $200.  Redo all brake lines, redo all fuel lines, I redid everything in the Mustang to convert to NA standard for convenience, say $300.  I also redid the wiring which would now be too short to reach the back of the car, do that again too.  Ok, $6k to end up with the same car.

 

Do all the above due to the rules and one Fox platform having a different fuel capacity than another Fox platform... ugh.  Also try to be careful on the new build but a couple of gremlins forget to tighten one or two things and spend the next race or two finessing the new build - see how easy it was for GWR to continue their success after doing the same build on a new shell as an example.

 

Double ugh for a new car that we already have.  Send me a cheque for $6k, do a group fund, whatever, and you will never hear me talk about fuel again.  Deal?  ;)

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So, isn't the second place team the one that won both days at Sonoma?  That race had more than 15 cars and then SOA came in and beat them?  Seeing how at some points they had a 4 lap lead even... 

 

Regardless of the small car count, sometimes the quality of the teams makes up for the lack of competitive opponents.  In fact, with less cars, you have less of an opportunity to lose pace due to traffic and in all actuality these teams would have been able to set a pace and just gone out and ran.  You can't choose who shows up to the race, you still have to go out and try to beat them all the same. My .02.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Got excited and went on a ramble, had to step away and delete all..

 

Pretty sure I could create a clone of our car for $6000 using no components from the existing car.

 

You reeeeally need to learn to weld ;)

 

Excellent.  I'm not selfish and I will share the pain so as of tomorrow all ChampCar teams need to do a brand new build with a new chassis, you may select a different vehicle or stay with what you have.

 

38 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

So, isn't the second place team the one that won both days at Sonoma?  That race had more than 15 cars and then SOA came in and beat them?  Seeing how at some points they had a 4 lap lead even... 

 

Regardless of the small car count, sometimes the quality of the teams makes up for the lack of competitive opponents.  In fact, with less cars, you have less of an opportunity to lose pace due to traffic and in all actuality these teams would have been able to set a pace and just gone out and ran.  You can't choose who shows up to the race, you still have to go out and try to beat them all the same. My .02.

 

 

 

Yes both quality teams for sure.  SoA gained a four lap lead with better pace in the morning then Arsenic made two of those back with their better pace in the afternoon.  If Arsenic didn't put themselves in the penalty box with a long stop it would have been two cars on the lead lap.  If SoA didn't luck out on the late start and early lunch they would not have had the extra pace to make time on Arsenic.

 

Today with less fuel limitation on SoA both teams have been on the lead lap.  SoA made up the 2 lap deficit with their fast drivers in the morning and both cars have been within seconds all afternoon on the same lap.  Good race.  So give the Mustang fuel and take away 20 points, that is the race going on today.  Last time I checked with SoA they were maxed out at 500 points.  Once I can download the lap times I can do a better analysis if people want to read it, or not.

Edited by Ron_e
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Only on the left coast could a car run 2 to 5 sec avg off their fastest driver average! time to save fuel and win....

 

I think that is the point others are trying to make. 

 

Oh and only 2 cars within 10 laps of the lead lap....

Edited by Black Magic
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There once was a business owner who was interviewing people for a division manager position. He decided to select the individual that could answer the question “how much is 2+2?”

 

The engineer pulled out his slide rule and shuffled it back and forth, and finally announced, “It lies between 3.98 and 4.02”.

The mathematician said, “In two hours I can demonstrate it equals 4 with the following short proof.”

The physicist declared, “It's in the magnitude of 1×101.”

The logician paused for a long while and then said, “This problem is solvable.”

The social worker said, “I don't know the answer, but I a glad that we discussed this important question.

The attorney stated, “In the case of Svenson vs. the State, 2+2 was declared to be 4.”

The trader asked, “Are you buying or selling?”

The accountant looked at the business owner, then got out of his chair, went to see if anyone was listening at the door and pulled the drapes. Then he returned to the business owner, leaned across the desk and said in a low voice, “What would you like it to be?”

 

I like this...

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9 minutes ago, shutupracing said:

Looks like a mustang won both days. 

 

Lets get it out of the way and hear it, @Ron_e

Look two posts before yours ... :P

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10 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

There once was a business owner who was interviewing people for a division manager position. He decided to select the individual that could answer the question “how much is 2+2?”

 

The engineer pulled out his slide rule and shuffled it back and forth, and finally announced, “It lies between 3.98 and 4.02”.

The mathematician said, “In two hours I can demonstrate it equals 4 with the following short proof.”

The physicist declared, “It's in the magnitude of 1×101.”

The logician paused for a long while and then said, “This problem is solvable.”

The social worker said, “I don't know the answer, but I a glad that we discussed this important question.

The attorney stated, “In the case of Svenson vs. the State, 2+2 was declared to be 4.”

The trader asked, “Are you buying or selling?”

The accountant looked at the business owner, then got out of his chair, went to see if anyone was listening at the door and pulled the drapes. Then he returned to the business owner, leaned across the desk and said in a low voice, “What would you like it to be?”

 

I like this...

A BMW team wins: "It's not the car, we're so good we can win with a lousy car because of our excellent drivers, teamwork, pit stops, strategy and sheer charisma." 

BMW teams dominate:"It's not the car, we're so good we can win with a lousy car because of our excellent drivers, teamwork, pit stops, strategy and sheer charisma."

Mustang wins a race with 15 cars in the field:" See, that proves that Mustangs are competitive even with less fuel than just about everyone else. Obviously the excellent drivers, teamwork, pit stops, and strategy had nothing to do with the win, it was definitely the car."

 

Red is the font for irony. ;)

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Oh hi guys. Arsenic only had two drivers, one of which had never driven the car. SOA ran out of fuel in the second stint and was in its pit for the lunch break. There was a simplified red flag procedure (not like Sonoma). When the track went yellow, they fueled and exited behind the field. 

 

SOA's fuel tank is legal. Well-sorted car with drivers who know how to wheel. 

 

We did really well with a poor tire choice, but retired early on Sunday. When you become the rolling chicane for the field... and the Toyota Yaris.... it's time to leave. 😂

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11 hours ago, mender said:

A BMW team wins: "It's not the car, we're so good we can win with a lousy car because of our excellent drivers, teamwork, pit stops, strategy and sheer charisma." 

BMW teams dominate:"It's not the car, we're so good we can win with a lousy car because of our excellent drivers, teamwork, pit stops, strategy and sheer charisma."

Mustang wins a race with 15 cars in the field:" See, that proves that Mustangs are competitive even with less fuel than just about everyone else. Obviously the excellent drivers, teamwork, pit stops, and strategy had nothing to do with the win, it was definitely the car."

 

Red is the font for irony. ;)

Coming from a team that has been successful with a 115hp motor and able to finish in the top 5 often, I totally understand needing to be perfect in all areas of a race.  The haves will always want to keep the have nots in their place, just the way it goes.  I never once said anything to take away from the execution of a perfect race.  I did say that they were able to beat a team that has won the last two west coast events, which is a fact.  They have a system dialed in to be competitive with what they have. When we made the trek to Vegas for what should have been the 39, I had the opportunity to talk with their team for a while and was given a solid understanding of how they operate and are able to run at the top.  Very disciplined group.

 

Enough on this topic, glad it was a great race even with a small field!! 

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13 minutes ago, FlorahDorah said:

SOA's fuel tank is legal. Well-sorted car with drivers who know how to wheel. 

 

 

I forgot to put my font in green, but I though the troll gif might be a give away.

 

Props to the mustang guys for winning!!   Well run team to win two days in a row for sure!

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