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Arrive and Drive Cost Determination

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2 hours ago, dinanm3atl said:

Doesn't seem to really be a formula. Vast majority seem to be about 500/2hr. Nothing really in between until you see the 'top teams' or 'high budget builds' and they want 1000-1200/2hr.

I am liter right in the middle of that.  About 1500 for 4 hours.

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6 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Question for renters:

If you had two teams that you were considering running with for an event, one has a streak of top 5 finishes and looks poised to continue that. The other is a consistent top 20 team, doesn’t break down often, just slower (could be slower car or other drivers who are slow, etc.).

Would you pay more to run on this premium team? How much more?

Depends on how fast you are (the renter, I mean).

 

I am fairly quick, but I know I'm not quite top tier.  I would feel a little uncomfortable racing with gwr or troy for example.  

 

What I'm trying to say is that I may still choose the "lesser" team even if it was the same cost.

 

Also, attitude counts for a lot.  A fast team of jerks would be less fun than a slower team full of @E. Tyler Pedersens.  (Not that Tyler is slow!, just awesome to hang out with)

 

All of that being said, yes, charge more if you are consistently a top 5 team.  Be picky about your drivers.  There is a market for better teams to charge more.  It takes more work and ingenuity to stay at the top.  Reward the team for this by charging more.

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12 hours ago, enginerd said:

Question for renters:

If you had two teams that you were considering running with for an event, one has a streak of top 5 finishes and looks poised to continue that. The other is a consistent top 20 team, doesn’t break down often, just slower (could be slower car or other drivers who are slow, etc.).

Would you pay more to run on this premium team? How much more?

 

So the way I look at this is what am I offering to renters? 

 

1) A well prepped car that was done in my garage and not having issues overlying at the track. My whole goal is to have everything complete and ready to go when its loaded in the trailer. Not having to work on things at the track is the big bonus.

 

2) A competitive car that can battle in the top 10 to top 5 for each event. 

 

3) I want my drivers to focus on driving, not having to worry about fueling the car or other items during a pit stop. I have one crew guy that comes with me.

 

4) Offering live video, AiM data and SmartyCam video for review. Renters can access the info we capture during the race. Also their family and friends at home can tune in to watch them race. 

 

5) Have renters that are faster than you and can give you the best feedback. That's how I have built my car over the past couple of years. 

 

6) Do the renters believe is worth renting from you for what you offer? This I'd a question the renter needs to answer. 

 

7) Also I take snack orders before the race and also bring drinks the drivers like. I also start a group chat months before the race to keep renters informed with what is going. Make sure you book a room or AIRBNB that gives the renter the option for lodging. I do not factor lodging into my rental price. 

 

I want my renters to feel like they are a part and involved with the team from prep updates to wearing team shirts. A lot of the small items go a long way.  

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16 hours ago, enginerd said:

Question for renters:

If you had two teams that you were considering running with for an event, one has a streak of top 5 finishes and looks poised to continue that. The other is a consistent top 20 team, doesn’t break down often, just slower (could be slower car or other drivers who are slow, etc.).

Would you pay more to run on this premium team? How much more?

 

Image result for high society meme

Is one of them is a Porsche?

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For me, driving the boxster was a fun change of pace.  Those cars were really interesting to drive.  I’m glad I did it.  

Edited by Paulie
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For the teams running up front - you know, with the $150k tow rigs, multi-cars - expect to pay $600-$700 per hour of driving.

they have nice rigs, with AC for you, food, pit crews, mechanics, etc.  you do nothing but drive.

 

for other teams - where you bring your own food, you have to help set up and tear down the pits, you have to help with the 

pit stops, etc. - that’s more like $300-$400 pe r hour

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I would like to point out that lots of teams run up front with no big semis or full spreads.

 

Some of us show up with the car on an open trailer, a toolbox, a cooler of water and Gatorade, and another cooler full of beer and that's about it!

 

@NigelStu @E. Tyler Pedersen @hornerevan and many others that have finished top 3 in the last 12 months.  

 

They are also in line with that lower number (if you want to hang with doods who party hard and still do well!). You do need to help out though.  These races would be incredibly boring if you just showed up for the entire weekend and only did something for 4 hours....

 

It's getting more expensive all the time, but I don't see these type teams leaving the series.

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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11 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I would like to point out that lots of teams run up front with no big semis or full spreads.

 

Some of us show up with the car on an open trailer, a toolbox, a cooler of water and Gatorade, and another cooler full of beer and that's about it!

 

@NigelStu @E. Tyler Pedersen @hornerevan and many others that have finished top 3 in the last 12 months.  

 

They are also in line with that lower number (if you want to hang with doods who party hard and still do well!). You do need to help out though.  These races would be incredibly boring if you just showed up for the entire weekend and only did something for 4 hours....

 

It's getting more expensive all the time, but I don't see these type teams leaving the series.

I hear there is never... evah, evah trips to a Gentleman's club either... realz racers go to sleep at 8 pm the night before renting a seat...

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4 hours ago, dogtired said:

I hear there is never... evah, evah trips to a Gentleman's club either... realz racers go to sleep at 8 pm the night before renting a seat...

Cumatose....  yes, I spelled that right....  @Mopar 4 Lifeknows of what I speak.

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On 2/1/2020 at 12:03 PM, wvumtnbkr said:

Cumatose....  yes, I spelled that right....  @Mopar 4 Lifeknows of what I speak.


I can’t believe your one driver. Isn’t permanently scarred from that night.

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23 minutes ago, Mopar 4 Life said:


I can’t believe your one driver. Isn’t permanently scarred from that night.

Oh, maybe that's what's wrong with @MA506...  mark.

P.s. I'm not sure if he purposely chose 506 because that was his motocross number or if he just thought our car number was 506....

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I think a consistent team that finishes and podiums a lot is worth $300-400 more per weekend.  I'm still charging less because although everyone almost always gets a full stint, I've still had some niggling issues that reduce the odds of a full second stint.  Working on that reliability, then I will increase my rates.  

 

I like driving for Troy because I know if the car finishes, it will be near the podium or on it.  I would rather have a chance to win (but higher risk of not driving) than just another top 20 finish. I had that with my old team, and although it was fun to get a lot of seat time, I wanted to win or have a chance to do so at least.  

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4 hours ago, Jer said:

I like driving for Troy because I know if the car finishes, it will be near the podium or on it.  I would rather have a chance to win (but higher risk of not driving) than just another top 20 finish. I had that with my old team, and although it was fun to get a lot of seat time, I wanted to win or have a chance to do so at least.  

 

Yep, I want to be competing for the podium. If things go perfect I want there to be at least an outside chance of a win. 

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Hey guys, I am one of those people interested in renting a seat at some point hopefully soon-ish. I do have racing experience in other disciplines but I'm new to automotive racing.

I have gone to dream racing in Vegas a few times and that's where this itch was started. I guess what i'm wondering is if there is any teams that rent out seats without auto racing experience. I was hoping to have a few track days under my belt in my street car but that's a whole different story why that didn't work out yet. Or can i only get a drive by going through a driving/racing school.

 

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4 hours ago, Mark L said:

Hey guys, I am one of those people interested in renting a seat at some point hopefully soon-ish. I do have racing experience in other disciplines but I'm new to automotive racing.

I have gone to dream racing in Vegas a few times and that's where this itch was started. I guess what i'm wondering is if there is any teams that rent out seats without auto racing experience. I was hoping to have a few track days under my belt in my street car but that's a whole different story why that didn't work out yet. Or can i only get a drive by going through a driving/racing school.

 

Mark, I am relatively new to this, so perhaps I can shed some light on it from a noobish perspective.  I would strongly suggest coming to an event, working with a team or volunteering with CCES (both are great but different experiences) and making sure this is what you want to do before you drop $1000+ on safety equipment and pay for a ride.  Personally I spent enough time working on @wvumtnbkr's car that his daughter literally thought I lived in the garage.  If you've got a team you are close with get some time in with the car on a track day or in Friday practice before an event you are there to help out at.  

 

It sounds like you are interested in doing some track days so get out with any car and get some coaching.  At Sebring one of our experienced drivers even ran in the beginner group in his rental car intending to pick up some local knowledge for the weekend.  Do whatever you can to get seat time in whatever car you can.  Make friends with people who want you to drive their cars.  Enjoy being there even if you don't drive.  Argue on the internet with us.  Mostly just have fun, that's what matters here!

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I don't know any teams or anything so that's why I was looking at arrive and drive programs, buts I don't think that's what this is. If i was lucky i could afford to maybe do 2 races a year or so, and it seems like most of the teams have more expectations of the driver than to just drive. Not that I am opposed to helping during pits and such, but i'm not looking for a long commitment in building or maintaining/repairing a car. Also the no refund if you don't get to drive is no good, it really makes me think twice about this as throwing away a few grand is never a good feeling when you're paying for a service that you don't get. I'm obviously not sure how often something like that happens, but to me anyway it wouldn't seem fair from a drop in driver perspective.

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@Mark L not sure where you're based, but I would strongly recommend visiting an event to see what it's about and meeting/speaking with various teams who might be renting seat time at future events. Not all teams are active on the forums, and there is a huge variety of teams and rental contracts. Some teams may refund for drive time not used, some may refund a certain % (based on non-refundable costs), some may roll it over to a future event; entirely depends on the individuals involved. Volunteering to work in the pits would also give you a good idea of how CCES events work and to see how certain different teams approach a race. Just having that base experience and knowledge would make teams more likely to offer you a seat as you won't be completely new to the sport. 

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6 hours ago, Mark L said:

I don't know any teams or anything so that's why I was looking at arrive and drive programs, buts I don't think that's what this is. If i was lucky i could afford to maybe do 2 races a year or so, and it seems like most of the teams have more expectations of the driver than to just drive. Not that I am opposed to helping during pits and such, but i'm not looking for a long commitment in building or maintaining/repairing a car. Also the no refund if you don't get to drive is no good, it really makes me think twice about this as throwing away a few grand is never a good feeling when you're paying for a service that you don't get. I'm obviously not sure how often something like that happens, but to me anyway it wouldn't seem fair from a drop in driver perspective.

The big issue with the refund is that there is no refund for entry fee, half used brake pads and tires that aren't good enough for another race weekend towing, fuel usage that has been used, etc.  

 

I know that if my car fails to finish, I am already out the cost of the weekend plus whatever it costs to fix the car.

 

That being said, I would do everything in my power to get everybody seat time even if we have no chance at winning.

 

I also only charge people whatever the race weekend costs me divided by the number of people driving.

 

What I'm trying to say has 2 points.  1) race can be a cruel mistress sometimes (like when the first driver wrecks the car).  2) pick a team that has a strong reliability record.

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6 hours ago, Mark L said:

I don't know any teams or anything so that's why I was looking at arrive and drive programs, buts I don't think that's what this is. If i was lucky i could afford to maybe do 2 races a year or so, and it seems like most of the teams have more expectations of the driver than to just drive. Not that I am opposed to helping during pits and such, but i'm not looking for a long commitment in building or maintaining/repairing a car. Also the no refund if you don't get to drive is no good, it really makes me think twice about this as throwing away a few grand is never a good feeling when you're paying for a service that you don't get. I'm obviously not sure how often something like that happens, but to me anyway it wouldn't seem fair from a drop in driver perspective.

Racing is just really expensive compared to most other hobbies, but CCES is the best value your going to get.

 

When I was 18, broke, I put a cage in my daily driver so I could drive to the track and race Spec Miata.  That was the cheapest w2w option at the time and it was still over $750 an hour of track time.  I would have killed for the opportunity of volunteer credits.

 

If you don't have the cash, volunteer to build up credits and trade them for stints.

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The other thing to think about.

 

The cost to you is not just the cost of rental.

 

You have

1. Travel expenses

2. Lodging expenses

3. Food and Beverage

4. DAMAGE Liability-  If you hurt the car, you will be responsible for paying to fix it. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Huggy said:

4. DAMAGE Liability-  If you hurt the car, you will be responsible for paying to fix it. 

 

"Hurt"

 

Not damage, not break or wreck.  Hurt.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like their car is more a member of the family than a conglomeration of metal, plastic, and rubber.

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2 hours ago, Huggy said:

The other thing to think about.

 

The cost to you is not just the cost of rental.

5. Safety gear, helmet, HANS, fire suit, gloves, shoes, socks, coolshirt, etc... That stuff adds up fast.

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1 hour ago, bbaker480 said:

5. Safety gear, helmet, HANS, fire suit, gloves, shoes, socks, coolshirt, etc... That stuff adds up fast.

You forgot a toothbrush.  

 

The cost can be split up by the team, so it's not such a big expense.

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19 hours ago, Mark L said:

don't know any teams or anything so that's why I was looking at arrive and drive programs, buts I don't think that's what this is.

Make some connections here on the forum then show up at the track. Instant connection. 

 

19 hours ago, Mark L said:

If i was lucky i could afford to maybe do 2 races a year or so, and it seems like most of the teams have more expectations of the driver than to just drive. Not that I am opposed to helping during pits and such, but i'm not looking for a long commitment in building or maintaining/repairing a car.

No problem with most teams renting seats. Some want drivers who are more competitive than others. 

 

19 hours ago, Mark L said:

Also the no refund if you don't get to drive is no good, it really makes me think twice about this as throwing away a few grand is never a good feeling when you're paying for a service that you don't get. I'm obviously not sure how often something like that happens, but to me anyway it wouldn't seem fair from a drop in driver perspective.

This is always the tricky part of multi driver endurance racing. Most teams go out of their way to “make things right” with renters. But it is impossible to account for all possible things that can go wrong racing. Co driver can miss a shift and destroy a brand new engine. Car owner did his best by making sure it was new before the event. You crash on the opening lap when another driver t-bones you. No one else gets to drive and you only got half a lap. Plus car is destroyed and will need to be replaced or rebuilt, not cheap. Having a good relationship with the team and pitching in where you can will ensure the best outcome. Almost all of the cost to race has to be fronted. Day of the race costs are generally food  and drinks as everything else has been bought before the race starts. Over time renting is much more bang for your buck than building a car. But it can have its disappointments too. This is racing unfortunately. I hope to see you at the track. 

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