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Swapping parts on Engine Swap


jenoin
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Hi, I have a technical question about swapping and was hoping someone with a better understanding of the rules could help me out.

 

In the BCCR there is a rule:

 

4.5.7. All other drivetrain components shall be stock. “Stock” is defined as the published specifications and technical measurements provided by the manufacturer.

 

Does this mean you cannot add a non OE head or headers to the swap motor in exchange for extra points? (Cylinder Head 100 points, Exhaust Header 25 points).

Or is it just saying that only the OE parts for the swap engine are part of the engine swap VPI increase.

 

It seems like in many cases, if your platform motor doesn't have good upgrade options, you could do a 50 point swap to a "mundane" motor (305?) and then do head (with free exhaust and intake) and cams and you could have much more power for far fewer VPI points than if you used the calculater to add an OE motor with the same HP.

 

What do y'all think? 

 

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The motor swap includes the 'stock for the incoming motor' heads, exhaust, cams, etc. You don't get to freely swap any aftermarket parts in with your engine. Swapping  the heads or something to another unit would be the additional points.

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Yes you could swap a crappy 70s 305, claim non oe heads, cam, intake and potentially make more power than swapping a vortech engine in depending on your cars weight and vpi room. 

 

Keep in mind most swaps can be done for just the 50 points, so choosing a slightly less crappy engine might be the same swap points. 

 

I have suggested a system of swap multipliers as an alternative system. You would have to do an engine swap form for any engine mods, with hp multipliers like 5% for headers, 10% for cams, etc.  That would help keep low vpi cars from piling on the engine mods, as the multipliers would get them into steep pwr points land.

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36 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

I have suggested a system of swap multipliers as an alternative system. You would have to do an engine swap form for any engine mods, with hp multipliers like 5% for headers, 10% for cams, etc.  That would help keep low vpi cars from piling on the engine mods, as the multipliers would get them into steep pwr points land.

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Sounds like we think alike, except I think it should be applied to all cars, not just the swapped cars.

 

"New format: a dedicated calculator for each hp related item. Select the desired component, use the appropriate calculator and add up the numbers. This would replace the petition to prohibit post-swap hp adders as it would keep things in check and should also be applied to non-swap cars for the same reason.

Cam calculator: 50 point surcharge plus base hp x 1.15 (15% power increase) and entered into the present swap formula. Example: Fiero is base 140 hp x 1.15 = 161 hp entered as new hp. If it doesn't hit the cliff, the surcharge is the only point adder.

Header calc: 25 point surcharge plus base hp x 1.10 (10% power increase), etc.

Intake calc: 50 points and 1.15

Carb calc: 50 points and 1.15

Head(s) calc: 100 points and 1.25

Turbo calc: 100 points and 1.35

Intercooler calc: 25 points and 1.15"

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16 hours ago, mender said:

Sounds like we think alike, except I think it should be applied to all cars, not just the swapped cars.

 

"New format: a dedicated calculator for each hp related item. Select the desired component, use the appropriate calculator and add up the numbers. This would replace the petition to prohibit post-swap hp adders as it would keep things in check and should also be applied to non-swap cars for the same reason.

Cam calculator: 50 point surcharge plus base hp x 1.15 (15% power increase) and entered into the present swap formula. Example: Fiero is base 140 hp x 1.15 = 161 hp entered as new hp. If it doesn't hit the cliff, the surcharge is the only point adder.

Header calc: 25 point surcharge plus base hp x 1.10 (10% power increase), etc.

Intake calc: 50 points and 1.15

Carb calc: 50 points and 1.15

Head(s) calc: 100 points and 1.25

Turbo calc: 100 points and 1.35

Intercooler calc: 25 points and 1.15"

Interesting and good idea, I think that should have a serious discussion for a future BCCR.

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2 minutes ago, UglyBoost91 said:

Interesting and good idea, I think that should have a serious discussion for a future BCCR.

Except it would hurt the cars that have good power but not fuel.

 

To be fair, a FWR rule should accompany this.

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11 hours ago, okkustom said:

Don't forget the new petition " no mods after swap "  that is being reviewed and voted on by the board at NCM. ...

 

Not sure that rule helps anyone. It forces you to hunt the world for an engine with just the right power to max out your swap math. Since champcar chose aggressive pwr targets this makes it slightly harder for fwd small cars for example. Where are you gonna find a broad power curved 185 to 200 hp engine to swap in (on vpi list)? Maybe a heavy v6, many don't practically fit.

 

Better option would be to treat all engine mods like the swap math, in the way mender suggested. You are basically swapping in a package, with multipliers tacked on to engine mods that give a new hp to the equation. This would also apply to mods on done on the stock motor for the car.

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25 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

 

Not sure that rule helps anyone. It forces you to hunt the world for an engine with just the right power to max out your swap math. Since champcar chose aggressive pwr targets this makes it slightly harder for fwd small cars for example. Where are you gonna find a broad power curved 185 to 200 hp engine to swap in (on vpi list)? Maybe a heavy v6, many don't practically fit.

 

Better option would be to treat all engine mods like the swap math, in the way mender suggested. You are basically swapping in a package, with multipliers tacked on to engine mods that give a new hp to the equation. This would also apply to mods on done on the stock motor for the car.

This! Seems the cleanest and fairest way to do it. 

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14 hours ago, okkustom said:

Don't forget the new petition " no mods after swap "  that is being reviewed and voted on by the board at NCM. ...

I assumed that if you swap a motor you get banged for the swap points, and if you add anything to said motor, headers, cam, intake... you take a points hit for those as well. Is that correct? 

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3 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

I assumed that if you swap a motor you get banged for the swap points, and if you add anything to said motor, headers, cam, intake... you take a points hit for those as well. Is that correct? 

You are correct

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
41 minutes ago, okkustom said:

Has anyone emailed the board members about menders possible solution . Talking on here ain't gonna get it done .  Use the tools don't be one ....

 

I haven't emailed the board because I like rules stability. Almost any change that is not safety related is "bad" no matter how "good" it is. If I did email the board, it would be asking them to stabilize and firm up the existing rules. 

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Just now, red0 said:

 

I haven't emailed the board because I like rules stability. Almost any change that is not safety related is "bad" no matter how "good" it is. If I did email the board, it would be asking them to stabilize and firm up the existing rules. 

Yep.  Small adjustments are always needed.  But major swings are bad.    

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3 hours ago, Bandit said:

The Vortec has an intake and Holley because I don't want to dick with the factory injection. Not in support of a rule that would force me to run it.

What? you were expecting a "free" intake and carb in place of the factory induction from your swap motor?!? That's not how any of this works!

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