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Rad Ducting behind air dam -> additional points?


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I am under the assumption that radiator ducting behind an air dam, in front of the radiator does NOT get wrapped up in the value of the air dam/splitter value and that it is counted as additional material.  Sort of like this picture if you look closely at the air dam opening

image.png.b139d6494e3a83b1d0870923beaddb48.png

 

What have you guys heard on this matter?  I also believe the same of ducting on the back side of the rad...

 

image.png.e554ee0df8fc2471b388a7babe589ea5.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alchemy Autosport
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8 minutes ago, Alchemy Autosport said:

What have you guys heard on this matter?  I also believe the same of ducting on the back side of the rad...

image.png.e554ee0df8fc2471b388a7babe589ea5.png

Oooo fancy!! Love this... going to try to incorporate into the future BMW aero package....

 

I think this is a clear cut "2 pts / sq. ft." aluminium addition. 

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38 minutes ago, Kentite said:

We have had a similar set up for a few years and have never been hit with any additional points.

 

7 minutes ago, Alchemy Autosport said:

Have you every had to defend it?

 

Careful Ben, you may want to note whether the "No points" is in the east or the west. :D

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36 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

We do not count the ducting to the radiator.  I use sq ft for the ducting post radiator.

I think it should be mentioned that your ducting TO the radiator is 85% OEM plastic undertray and the sides of the duct are folded in from the roll plastic air dam and still technically one piece.  If you were to claim it I'd think there's maybe 2 ft of plastic total that wasn't there before the air dam went on.

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47 minutes ago, Kentite said:

We have had a similar set up for a few years and have never been hit with any additional points.

Have you said during tech: “hey, we added this stuff here, how many points?”

or have you not mentioned it and tech didn’t comment on it either?

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20 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Have you said during tech: “hey, we added this stuff here, how many points?”

 or have you not mentioned it and tech didn’t comment on it either?

 

If anyone answers the 2nd way, that's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. 

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30 minutes ago, bbaker480 said:

I think it should be mentioned that your ducting TO the radiator is 85% OEM plastic undertray and the sides of the duct are folded in from the roll plastic air dam and still technically one piece.  If you were to claim it I'd think there's maybe 2 ft of plastic total that wasn't there before the air dam went on.

 

That is a slippery slope, if my brake ducts incorporate  a splitter and diffuser, they are not free as part of the "free brake ducts".  

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30 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Have you said during tech: “hey, we added this stuff here, how many points?”

or have you not mentioned it and tech didn’t comment on it either?

I believe we have. We have annual tech Friday so I will point it out again. We have plenty of points to spare so I don’t mind being the litmus test for this ruling.

Edited by Kentite
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1 hour ago, red0 said:

 

Why do you not count the ducting upstream of the radiator?

Because it is literally part of the airdam.  It is the same piece of roll plastic that I cut slits into and fold it into the radiator area to make the duct.  

 

In other words, the airdam and ducting are 1 continuous piece that does not even have fasteners connecting it together.

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1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Because it is literally part of the airdam.  It is the same piece of roll plastic that I cut slits into and fold it into the radiator area to make the duct.  

 

In other words, the airdam and ducting are 1 continuous piece that does not even have fasteners connecting it together.

I think I can make my air dam, undertray, and diffuser out of one really huge sheet of aluminium......

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Just now, enginerd said:

I think I can make my air dam, undertray, and diffuser out of one really huge sheet of aluminium......

But you would be using more material than the airdam.  I am not.  Instead of cutting out the hole for the inlet, I just slit it and folded it in.

 

I can't believe this is as big a deal as you guys are making it out to be....  people must be bored today.

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Im already half way through writing a petition that states "air dam material can only be situated in a vertical position and perpendicular to the direction of travel".  I hope you have 4 points to spare for your air DUCTING in 2019 or you are down a creek, man....

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7 minutes ago, Alchemy Autosport said:

Seems like most people are on the same page as its added material.  I will be curious to what @Kentite hears Friday

For the record ours is in front of the radiator and I could probably sell it as part of the air dam. We have added more material than what we cut out for our opening though. If it is the case that it is points added I’d like to see a future fixed points value for it. If I make it from wood, aluminum or ABS plastic, which ours is, why should one be 3x the points of another. It all does the same job. I can see Rob’s point in that his is one continuous piece. 

In the meantime I’m gonna do a quick edit of the Beretta Wikipedia to make sure it has the optional “aero package” listed as a factory option...

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55 minutes ago, Kentite said:

I believe we have. We have annual tech Friday so I will point it out again. We have plenty of points to spare so I don’t mind being the litmus test for this ruling.

I’d like to redact this and replace it with 

You can protest our win on Sunday...

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4 hours ago, Alchemy Autosport said:

I am under the assumption that radiator ducting behind an air dam, in front of the radiator does NOT get wrapped up in the value of the air dam/splitter value and that it is counted as additional material.  Sort of like this picture if you look closely at the air dam opening

image.png.b139d6494e3a83b1d0870923beaddb48.png

 

What have you guys heard on this matter?  I also believe the same of ducting on the back side of the rad...

 

image.png.e554ee0df8fc2471b388a7babe589ea5.png

 

 

 

 

It the top picture this would be a splitter and the sq ft cost of material for the air dam

The second picture would be the cost of material.

It doesn't matter if its in the east or west.  I know we have been inconsistent in the past and hopefully that is a thing of the past and we're trying to be consistent at all our events. 

 

Phil McKinney

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1 hour ago, Mopar 63 said:

It the top picture this would be a splitter and the sq ft cost of material for the air dam

The second picture would be the cost of material.

It doesn't matter if its in the east or west.  I know we have been inconsistent in the past and hopefully that is a thing of the past and we're trying to be consistent at all our events. 

 

Phil McKinney

"Awesome response Phil!  Thank you very much!"  That was an incorrect statement!   I read it as the material behind the airdam as extra only.

 

For at least 2 years now a splitter/airdam combo have been 10pts.  

Edited by Alchemy Autosport
read it wrong
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28 minutes ago, Mopar 63 said:

It the top picture this would be a splitter and the sq ft cost of material for the air dam

The second picture would be the cost of material.

It doesn't matter if its in the east or west.  I know we have been inconsistent in the past and hopefully that is a thing of the past and we're trying to be consistent at all our events. 

 

Phil McKinney

 

 

Can you please spell out what you are communicating like you are talking to an idiot?  (You are communicating to an idiot).

 

In your post, your wording does not reference the actual ducting to the radiator at all.  Can you please explain what you meant by your first sentence?

 

I'm asking because that is clearly an airdam AND a splitter.  The topic of this thread is the material that leads from the airdam to the radiator.  I am not sure if that is what you are explaining with your response.

 

For further clarification, could you end the debate about how many points the 1st pic would be?

 

A) Is it 10 pts for front aero device? 

B ) 10 points for splitter AND 10 points for airdam? 

C) 10 points for splitter AND cost of materials for airdam?  

 

Thanks!

 

Rob R.

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Oh brother. I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this... Where does a splitter start and and an airdamn stop?

 

@Mopar 63 has a valid point in calling the picture of the Miata above an "airdam" that is clearly over and above the needed materials to mount the splitter.

 

On our car I call the entire assembly (what it takes to mount a splitter on the car) the "splitter" - this includes a 4" vertical piece because there is no place to mount the splitter without this. It is the bare minimum to run an attachment point from the lower part of the odd-shaped plastic bumper cover to the flat splitter. 

 

So is a 10 point splitter per Champcar rules defined as "the flat non-carbon fiber piece and the bare minimum you need to attach it to the car" or "ONLY the flat non-carbon fiber piece of your choosing and everything else is still points"? I thought that was the whole point of making it a flat 10 points, was to eliminate the nickel and dime issues of mounting the splitter.

 

 

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