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Grandfathering Rules


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I've heard that Champ has grandfathered in some cars from a couple years ago that now don't have to follow the current rule updates. Is this really true? Does Rbank have a 22gal cell in their saab because they don't have to follow the rules?

 

If this is true, WTF! How can it be that since I've only been racing with champ for the past couple of years means that I have to follow the other rulebook, not the one from six or seven years ago, or whichever one I want?

 

Not as relevant, but what about all of these 'unwritten rules'? You can port your engine with hand tools but not with any machines?

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9 minutes ago, The Aero Man said:

I've heard that Champ has grandfathered in some cars from a couple years ago that now don't have to follow the current rule updates. Is this really true? Does Rbank have a 22gal cell in their saab because they don't have to follow the rules?

 

If this is true, WTF! How can it be that since I've only been racing with champ for the past couple of years means that I have to follow the other rulebook, not the one from six or seven years ago, or whichever one I want?

 

Not as relevant, but what about all of these 'unwritten rules'? You can port your engine with hand tools but not with any machines?

Realistically you could have a 50 gallon cell in your car as long as you have the blocks in it to get to stock capacity +2......

 

Have you thought to protest their tank size and ask for a full pump out?  Not trying to be a jerk, but asking seriously.  I haven't heard of this until you brought it up and would be curios to what other things you might be referring too.

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3 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

You are being trolled....  hard.

 

There was not really ever open fuel tanks iirc.

Assumed, but wanted to try and get another epic thread going!

 

Nice win btw, I really was disappointed I missed out being able to be there with you all.

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2 minutes ago, The Aero Man said:

I had thought that at one time you could have a 22 gallon cell in the car, and after the rules changed some people didn't take them out.

Never.  If they have a cell, they still have to be within 2 gallons of stock.  There are no grandfathered cars on any rules at all.  

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On that note, they are lucky that I forgot who first mentioned it to me that this was a thing.

 

What about these unwritten rules? A diffuser is 10pts and so is a flat bottom? That you can mod your engine with hand tools but not with any machines? What if I am 'really good' at porting my engine with a dremel and die grinder?

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41 minutes ago, The Aero Man said:

I've heard that Champ has grandfathered in some cars from a couple years ago that now don't have to follow the current rule updates. Is this really true? Does Rbank have a 22gal cell in their saab because they don't have to follow the rules?

I assume they had the larger cells before when the rule was 18-22  ->  22

 

One thing you would notice by checking the race results and lap data is that years ago RBank did a lot of double stinting (driver change but no fuel). I haven't seen them do that recently. I assumed that this change is in large part a result of losing some fuel capacity.

 

18 minutes ago, The Aero Man said:

What about these unwritten rules? A diffuser is 10pts and so is a flat bottom?

Diffuser / underbelly points was addressed in the Mid-June board meeting, it will be added to the next revision of the rulebook.

 

I know that the current administration is dedicated to improving rulebook transparency and comprehensiveness and most of these issues are carryovers from the earlier days of ChumpCar.

Edited by enginerd
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1 hour ago, Jer said:

Never.  If they have a cell, they still have to be within 2 gallons of stock.  There are no grandfathered cars on any rules at all.  

  Thanks Jer nothing better than straight talk .   As my buddy Barney used to say nip it nip it in the bud .

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16 hours ago, The Aero Man said:

On that note, they are lucky that I forgot who first mentioned it to me that this was a thing.

 

What about these unwritten rules? A diffuser is 10pts and so is a flat bottom? That you can mod your engine with hand tools but not with any machines? What if I am 'really good' at porting my engine with a dremel and die grinder?

We clarified the rules regarding aero at the annual meeting at NCM.  splitter to front axle=10 points.  diffuser to rear axle=10 points.  flat bottom in between=10 points.  wing =10 points.  side skirts charged by square footage of material used.  

 

As for hand tools vs. a shop, tech will use it's best judgement.  Any reasonable best judgement would assume your not porting with a die grinder.  Now you're just piling on.  The rules aren't perfect and no ruleset covers each and every contingency, judgement and common sense still come into play. How else can this possibly be done?

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16 hours ago, enginerd said:

I assume they had the larger cells before when the rule was 18-22  ->  22

 

One thing you would notice by checking the race results and lap data is that years ago RBank did a lot of double stinting (driver change but no fuel). I haven't seen them do that recently. I assumed that this change is in large part a result of losing some fuel capacity.

If someone believes they have more capacity than legally allowed, a protest and check for blocks in the cell totaling two gallons would settle this.  Yes, we noticed they are taking fuel every other stop at a lot of tracks...

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I doubt they have 22 gallons of fuel. And nothing was grandfathered in.

 

But they may have a 22 gal cell and 2 gal of displacement blocks. Another car heavily aided by the lack of  good fuel rule, they can legally run 20 gallons of fuel, alot for a fwd 4 cylinder car. But the same capacity would be allowed for any team running saabs like theirs, so it isn't "grandfathering", rather the "we didn't pick your car" forces acting here.

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4 hours ago, Jer said:

We clarified the rules regarding aero at the annual meeting at NCM.  splitter to front axle=10 points.  diffuser to rear axle=10 points.  flat bottom in between=10 points.  wing =10 points.  side skirts charged by square footage of material used.  

 

As for hand tools vs. a shop, tech will use it's best judgement.  Any reasonable best judgement would assume your not porting with a die grinder.  Now you're just piling on.  The rules aren't perfect and no ruleset covers each and every contingency, judgement and common sense still come into play. How else can this possibly be done?

This is not going to be a popular answer, but you could measure distances from the bottom of the head to the bottom of the intake route and measure the degrees of the turn that the air has to make in the head. Don't know how you would really measure that, but just an idea.

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