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1 hour ago, bbaker480 said:

@Ron_e, I don't see how this helps your platform for more fuel for Mustangs.  Please, can you add some reference to your platform so you can continue to spread your message to the masses?

 

Yeah, hopefully one day your once competitive car will be written out of the series due to a major rule shift as well.

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Actually, speed creep put my car in storage from 2013 until we decided to swap platforms, swap engines, completely rethink the front suspension, and accept that the car we are building may be a contender but will always have shortcomings when compared to other cars in the series.  We're still not at a point where we have two cars at the pointy end of the field after 12+ months of 20+ hour weeks working on improvements.  I suppose I could join you on the fuel bandwagon since I'm running a rotary that we still aren't sure can make 2 hours at most tracks after the platform swap but instead I'm working to improve the other parts of the car to run 1:50 at a competitive pace and make the car bulletproof. 

 

If we get to a point where we're sure we can't go 2 hours driving conservatively and the car is on pace and being held back by this we will have to explore other options, none of which are going to be whining in every conversation on this forum about how we don't have the fuel to win races.

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1 hour ago, bbaker480 said:

We're still not at a point where we have two cars at the pointy end of the field after 12+ months of 20+ hour weeks working on improvements.  I suppose I could join you on the fuel bandwagon since I'm running a rotary that we still aren't sure can make 2 hours at most tracks after the platform swap but instead I'm working to improve the other parts of the car to run 1:50 at a competitive pace and make the car bulletproof. 

 

If we get to a point where we're sure we can't go 2 hours driving conservatively and the car is on pace and being held back by this we will have to explore other options, none of which are going to be whining in every conversation on this forum about how we don't have the fuel to win races.

Both Ron and I built and developed cars that were at the pointy end of the field, with Ron's car taking FTD for two days of the 2015 Laguna race weekend and my car taking the other plus fastest lap of the weekend in an event that had a number of the top teams in Chump at the time.

 

Some of us already have gone through the process and are advocating for a change that will help you when you get to where we were three years ago. 

 

P.S. To see who the whiner is here, check to see who brought up the topic in a totally unrelated thread.

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40 minutes ago, mender said:

P.S. To see who the whiner really is, check to see who brought up the topic in a totally unrelated thread.

 

I'll accept that.  Perhaps what I said should be in a color somewhere between normal text and green font. 

 

I'm sure in person you are both great to talk to but the number of times I open a thread to read about something completely unrelated to changing the fuel rules only to see the conversation diverted to complaining about fuel would be comical if it weren't so irritating.  I understand that you are fuel limited, I understand that you want to advocate change, but there are better ways to go about it than to hijack every discussion and push your talking points.  It's like meeting someone new who's vegan or into crossfit, you know who those folks are because they make sure to tell that they only eat plants and/or throw tractor tires between sets of burpees.  

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Yes, I feel that Ron and I are both very interesting and informed people to talk to in person. As is the case with just about everyone on the forum and in Champ, we all get along great at a race weekend and will do our best to help others get through any issues at the track.

 

Next time you see comments about fuel in an unrelated thread, check to see who brings it up first. I will definitely respond to any snide or inaccurate comments regardless of the topic at hand, because I find it very irritating that people feel free to take cheap shots and make self-aggrandizing statements about how they are so much smarter and/or harder working. 

 

But I guess Ron and I and a few others have only ourselves to blame. I'm sure that once the BMW teams went back to the least coast after that Laguna event and told everyone about losing to Neons and Civics and being bested in laptimes by Fords and Pontiacs despite them having cheater suspension parts and not claiming ECU tuning, the push to write out the low VPi cars started and the freebies for the 500 point cars began.

 

The recent casual dismissal of fuel change suggestions is merely a continuation of that theme to keep the domestics in their place by refusing to compete on an equal footing.

 

;)

 

P.S. If you start a petition to have the administrators delete posts that refer to fuel rule changes in unrelated threads, you will have my vote and support. Getting tired of the same thing you are, reading a thread and seeing it hijacked by comments about fuel. Black font.

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Couple of points...

1) Tyler took an E30 to the West Coast and won.  

2) I am all for the ability to trade points for fuel.  I am NOT for fuel "equality".  (There is NO weight, HP, suspension design, or brake equality, but you CAN use the process to make changes and maximize your platform)

3) Forum banter does nothing to get the series to change.  If the proposal was sent to the board and it was denied, find out why.  Was it written poorly?  Was it too extreme?  Was there some little detail that made it unacceptable to the board?  Write another one, or write multiple variations on the theme and get one to stick.

 

I liked Mender's thoughts regarding using the swap calculator.  My only beef was with giving some fuel away for free to help "equalize".  I didn't get "free" hp.  I had to use the 50 pt penalty just to swap engines even without an HP increase.  I think it should apply to this "swap" as well.  I also need to go back and re-run some numbers.  I think the penalty was a bit too low (iirc) for some cars.

 

I am tired of fuel getting brought up in every thread.  Apparently some other persons are as well.  I will say that this time was a bit out of left field and was certainly NOT brought up by either Ron or Mender.  

 

TLDR: 

1)Bringing fuel up in every thread sucks. 

2)There should be some form of "pay for fuel" that at least gives people an option of spending points for fuel.  I do NOT believe it should allow for equality of fuel.  (Just like there is no equality on brakes, suspension design, HP, etc...).  Can you change those items?  Sure, for points.

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

Ah... internet arguments between intellectuals are so much more enjoyable than arguments between dumbasses....

Good input here from various points of view. I love passion when it's directed at evening the playing field and making things fair for everyone, and is not self serving.

No rule is etched in stone, an free stuff HAS tipped the scales toward certain platforms. Hopefully we can constructively work for changes and revisions that will level the playing field for (most of) the various makes/models - a tough task!

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10 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

My only beef was with giving some fuel away for free to help "equalize".  I didn't get "free" hp.  I had to use the 50 pt penalty just to swap engines even without an HP increase.  I think it should apply to this "swap" as well.  I also need to go back and re-run some numbers.  I think the penalty was a bit too low (iirc) for some cars.

Pretty sure we can work these points out and write up a petition that handles things fairly for the vast majority of the field.

 

My hope is that it doesn't get tossed as soon as the BOD reads the title.

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THAT would piss me off.  Even if I don't agree with a petition it should still have a discussion around it.

 

I think enough members are open to it that we should be able to have something approved.

 

That something may be restrictive and costly, but I would argue it's easier to tweak something than it is to implement in the first place.

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2 minutes ago, mender said:

Pretty sure we can work these points out and write up a petition that handles things fairly for the vast majority of the field.

 

My hope is that it doesn't get tossed as soon as the BOD reads the title.

Re-label it something like "Petition to improve cometitiveness, parity, and vehicle variety within series".   Avoid the f-word altogether

 

Back on topic, I bet before I die my air-cooled, points ignition, 4-speed, crank window, manual door lock VW will be unstealable (short of a tow truck). Heck, I'm pretty sure a Model T or a 60s British bike probably are already.

 

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42 minutes ago, mender said:

P.S. If you start a petition to have the administrators delete posts that refer to fuel rule changes in unrelated threads, you will have my vote and support. Getting tired of the same thing you are, reading a thread and seeing it hijacked by comments about fuel. Black font.

 

If you think I'm the kind of guy who starts petitions I'm afraid I've got some bad news...  

 

11 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

Back on topic, I bet before I die my air-cooled, points ignition, 4-speed, crank window, manual door lock VW will be unstealable (short of a tow truck). Heck, I'm pretty sure a Model T or a 60s British bike probably are already.

 

That or a pneumatic shift Jeep with a 2 stick transfer case and a doubler box, cutting brakes, and manual locking differentials.  I don't care that it doesn't need a key to start, it still isn't going anywhere without knowing what those 5 levers do.

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4 minutes ago, bbaker480 said:

 

That or a pneumatic shift Jeep with a 2 stick transfer case and a doubler box, cutting brakes, and manual locking differentials.  I don't care that it doesn't need a key to start, it still isn't going anywhere without knowing what those 5 levers do.

That, and its probably on its side....

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1 hour ago, karman1970 said:

Re-label it something like "Petition to improve cometitiveness, parity, and vehicle variety within series".   Avoid the f-word altogether

 

Back on topic, I bet before I die my air-cooled, points ignition, 4-speed, crank window, manual door lock VW will be unstealable (short of a tow truck). Heck, I'm pretty sure a Model T or a 60s British bike probably are already.

 

 

I took my nephew for a ride:

 

Him: What is that for?

Me: That is to shift gears with a manual transmission and a clutch.  

Him: What is this?

Me: Turn it and watch it move the window up and down.  

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