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Well, turns out we need any extra fuel we can get. 15ish gallon Fuel cell and .5 surge tank. Only problem is turns out fuel cells cost more than our car! Does anyone have any advice on fuel cells. inexpensive ones or used ones. Do they need to be FIA? I'd like to mount it outside of the car. I'm open to suggestions since i know pretty much what ive learned from watching all of you guys. 

Thanks in advance for the help! The car is a 1995 BMW 318ti with a 2.8 and a 13.7 gallon tank.

Edited by Gorillasticker.com
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1 hour ago, ABR-Glen said:

Are you getting all the fuel out of the stock tank? i.e. how much are you adding during your pit stops?

We used most of it. Sputtered hard around corners and we brought it in and it took about 13 gallons. Planning a surge tank to get the rest and a little extra but i still dont see it being enough. maybe with more yellows we could make it close to two hours? 

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You are in luck that you can fit pretty much the only cost effective ChampCar legal fuel cell out there. Jaz makes a 16gallon cell that can be had with an SFI sticker. The only thing is that you have to order it directly from Jaz and have them put the sticker on the cell, $75 to install a sticker on a fuel cell seems ridiculous but it still ends up costing less than half of other options. It is unfortunate that Jaz goes from 16 gallon straight to 22 gallon, I have the 16 and could by the 2+ rule run an 18 but I would have to spend a lot to get those extra 2 gallons.

 

If I was going to upgrade at this point I would be looking at the Pyrotec cells, they seem really nice for the money.

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6 hours ago, mhr650 said:

You are in luck that you can fit pretty much the only cost effective ChampCar legal fuel cell out there. Jaz makes a 16gallon cell that can be had with an SFI sticker. The only thing is that you have to order it directly from Jaz and have them put the sticker on the cell, $75 to install a sticker on a fuel cell seems ridiculous but it still ends up costing less than half of other options. It is unfortunate that Jaz goes from 16 gallon straight to 22 gallon, I have the 16 and could by the 2+ rule run an 18 but I would have to spend a lot to get those extra 2 gallons.

 

If I was going to upgrade at this point I would be looking at the Pyrotec cells, they seem really nice for the money.

i didn't know you could get Jazz to put a SFI sticker on them. I would definitly go that route for the price. Thanks!

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14 hours ago, mhr650 said:

You are in luck that you can fit pretty much the only cost effective ChampCar legal fuel cell out there. Jaz makes a 16gallon cell that can be had with an SFI sticker. The only thing is that you have to order it directly from Jaz and have them put the sticker on the cell, $75 to install a sticker on a fuel cell seems ridiculous but it still ends up costing less than half of other options. It is unfortunate that Jaz goes from 16 gallon straight to 22 gallon, I have the 16 and could by the 2+ rule run an 18 but I would have to spend a lot to get those extra 2 gallons.

 

If I was going to upgrade at this point I would be looking at the Pyrotec cells, they seem really nice for the money.

 

I saw that R.C.I also will certify their cells.  The stickers aren't cheap. The SFI patches were 10% of the cost to make a drivers suit.  It's even more for fuel cells. It is a little redundant to require the extra cost of the sticker when the fact is all the certifiable cells meet the standard. They just don't put them on for market price reduction. Nascar and other sanctioning bodies recognize that and don't require them. It must be an insurance thing.

 

Fuel Safe bought Pyrotect so their cell manufacturing goes way back. When I worked at Bell/Pyrotect we sold the Fuel Safe Cells. That is where the connection started that became the Pyrotect fuel Cell. Bob Booth at one point told me he wanted me to buy Bell/Pyrotect after I left Nascar but I couldn't put together the funds. Steve could and he merged and then downsized the product line into today's Pyrotect.  Bell/Pyrotect made all of their products accept bags in the USA. Now just the fuel cells are. I think belts are USA too because they offer a re-certify service.

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  • 2 months later...
  • Technical Advisory Committee

Bumping this thread for some additional advice.

 

Pulled my S13 out of the weeds this weekend, it needs a fuel tank from previous damage and sitting to "go" again.  I have wanted to fuel cell it for a long time.  LS-Swapped non chumpy type deal, too much PWR for other series, so purely a fun HPDE car.

 

Takes 16 gallons stock I think?  If, for whatever reason, it were to appear in a race at a later date with a legal driveline, it would need 18 gallon cell.  

 

Any advice on where to find one that isnt $3000?

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2 minutes ago, mhr650 said:

Best deal I have found for a legal 18 gallon cell. $1200 beats $3000+ every day.

 

https://pyrotectstore.com/product/pyrocell-elite-steel-container

 

If I didn't already have a NOS NASCAR cell built and ready to install, I'd go this route for sure... be glad to see another S13 out there, even if we do get shafted relative to the Rx7s 😉  /horsebeating

 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
6 hours ago, mhr650 said:

Best deal I have found for a legal 18 gallon cell. $1200 beats $3000+ every day.

 

https://pyrotectstore.com/product/pyrocell-elite-steel-container

 

 

If they don't have free shipping for that cell, they have the same cell and free shipping at 90racing.com

 

https://90racing.com/collections/fuel-cells-tanks-components/products/pyrotect-pyrocell-elite-18-gallon-fuel-cell

 

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46 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

If they don't have free shipping for that cell, they have the same cell and free shipping at 90racing.com

 

https://90racing.com/collections/fuel-cells-tanks-components/products/pyrotect-pyrocell-elite-18-gallon-fuel-cell

 

 

Good point, shipping cost on something the size of a fuel cell can get ridiculous.

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4 hours ago, mhr650 said:

 

Good point, shipping cost on something the size of a fuel cell can get ridiculous.

I bought my 15 gallon cell off ebay and the seller thought they were doing me a favour by using a larger box than necessary. Cost me almost as much to ship as to buy.

 

Make sure they quote you a shipping cost, no COD!

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
12 hours ago, mender said:

I bought my 15 gallon cell off ebay and the seller thought they were doing me a favour by using a larger box than necessary. Cost me almost as much to ship as to buy.

  

Make sure they quote you a shipping cost, no COD!

 

Shipping on all orders over 90 dollars regardless of size and weight............$0. 

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31 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

Shipping on all orders over 90 dollars regardless of size and weight............$0. 

Sounds good!

 

Mine was a private seller that grabbed a big box from the local moving company and sent it without checking the cost. I had specified a box size and standard shipping but they "helped" me.

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

Thanks for the suggestions all.

 

Questions regarding the pyrotect, and perhaps I should call them direct (I will in a bit, been a crazy few days at work).

 

Fuel Pickup -

This is feeding ~400hp, but it currently runs fine with a 255 walboro on the stock feed lines.  I would think a -6 is plenty for this application (obviously less hp if converted for enduro)

This is one of the black fittings that comes out of the top plate in the center?

 

Check valve -

My experience is that bigger is better?  My E30 has a 1 1/4 npt discriminator valve.  Any reason NOT to go for the biggest one offered?  I assume this will result in a larger fitting on the top plate?   The check valves offered are of what type?  I assume they are like the discriminator, in that they allow flow in both directions?

 

Fuel Collector - Is this a internal or external surge tank?  Any idea on the various choices?

 

Fuel Pump - What is the normal plan for this?  Internal high pressure pump?  I would prefer to go "duals" for endurance redundancy. Im presuming I can rig my own if I don't select the option?  Is there a standard bracket thing in the cell already?

 

Sending Unit - I definitely want this.  Seems to cost alot extra as an option vs standalone though?  Is this because the top plate needs a receptacle for it?  I would prefer to use my stock gauge, I can get a similar resistance choice.

 

 

Also, what cap/filler lid is used to mount on the window where you dump fuel?  I would choose the 3" 45 filler and run 3" hose up to the rear 1/4 window and mount it up there.  I can cover it with aluminum tube for safety.

 

THanks

 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
23 hours ago, trigun7469 said:

For those that have gone with a cell, are you using the stock fuel pump?

Yes, I stayed with the stock Ford pump module, and built a surge tank around it, due to the fear of using an aftermarket pump with the Ford fuel pump driver module. The FPDM regulates voltage to the pump to control pressure output, so I was afraid to go with an aftermarket pump. At first, we the stock pump module inside the fuel cell, but due to the pickup arrangement, we weren't getting every bit of fuel out of the cell, and thus went with an external lift pump and surge tank setup.

 

Since that time, I've seen another Focus team that is using a Walbro or Bosch with the stock Ford fuel pump diver module, and they've reported no issues...

 

Here's my setup, which I can duplicate for you if interested.

IMG_2152.thumb.JPG.02d2f17fb1cf2d7fc11c297dd3858714.JPG

large.IMG_2225.JPG.2013a57e84717d6a7a8f544917a16d10.JPG

 

Edited by mcoppola
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