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Rotor sealing plates - yes no maybe so?


pintodave
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I understand the basic points of what they are and their intended purpose. 

 

Looking for additional tribal knowledge: 

 

What about the old wives tale about if you have inadequate air flow they can actually hurt by not allowing any extra air to be drawn into the rotor? Sounds like bunk to me - a reasonably placed 3" line should be forcing mad air in there at speed. I have no proof either way.  

 

Any comments on the finer points? Sealed as tight as possible? Leave a small gap (sub 1/8"-5/16"?)

 

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46 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

 My last comment about photo bandwidth was because I could not post photos of our  comprehensive, tight fitting, all encompassing new seal plate....

 

 

As soon as I get home to the laptop I'll link up the pics of what I've been working on all afternoon.... 

 

Edit: too funny we are doing the exact same brake mod at the same time.

Edited by pintodave
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Bold strategy Cotton...

 

I don't claim to be an engineer or anything, but unless you're going full F1 style ducted enclosure with equal cooling to both faces... I'd take a hard pass on this particular implementation. 

 

I quote from the linked article "the purpose of a seal plate is to force the air flow in the hose to go only through the brake rotor vanes and nowhere else."

 

DON'T SHIELD THE FRICTION FACE... just seal the center and duct the air into the void so it can only flow out through the cooling vanes to the rotor OD.

 

 

Edited by Gearhead_42
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2 minutes ago, Gearhead_42 said:

I quote from the linked article "the purpose of a seal plate is to force the air flow in the hose to go only through the brake rotor vanes and nowhere else."

Been working on this project for 6 weeks of random work sessions, just skimmed the article 30 min ago... going to continue and see if my idea does what is hoped.

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1 minute ago, Team Infiniti said:

Been working on this project for 6 weeks of random work sessions, just skimmed the article 30 min ago... going to continue and see if my idea does what is hoped.

Understood, but short version, your "shield" should be roughly the same OD as the back side ID of your rotor and right up tight to it

Edited by Gearhead_42
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3 minutes ago, pintodave said:

First pass, I am happy w/ the mounting and positioning, I might remake the plate, I could clean up the gaps a little bit...... 

 

My good ol' galvo-whatever-leftover-scrap ducts have held up well! 

 

Couldn't afford the SS ducts?

 

image.png.2df5e8a42fcf0a7cc5b8e1e27714eb01.png

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There are some good points in that article but I'm skeptical of anyone that suggests to blindly follow a certain "recipe" for ducting without suggesting any follow up testing to prove effectiveness (as well as anyone that mentions "warped rotors" and "off gassing" pads 😕).  The ducts in his photos are about as good as can be (straight with minimal bends), but he doesn't provide any temp data to prove a before/after temperature drop.

 

My suggestion is always to test it and take temps. If don't have one already, get a pyrometer that can take both brake and tire temps (both are extremely important for setup).  Install your new duct on one side but leave the other side open (no backing plate) and duct some air in behind the wheel/deflected into the general direction of the brake system.  Set someone in the first pit stall and go do a 1/2 dozen or so hot laps (after a lap or two of warm up of course).  Come into the pits and immediately have that person take temps (caliper and disc) on both sides and compare. The findings might surprise you.  Then again they may not, but you will never know if you don't have the data to compare.

 

Unfortunately, most of the amateur-built ducting I've come across is probably hurting more than helping. YMMV, my $.02 and all that.

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We're ducting to the center of the rotor/hub as well. We'll see how things go in testing at Sebring but hoping to have plenty of air pumping on there from the front 5" inlets to 3" ducting. 

S.t3FYXf.jpg

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1 hour ago, Bremsen said:

Unfortunately, most of the amateur-built ducting I've come across is probably hurting more than helping. YMMV, my $.02 and all that.

Going ahead with setup as shown but opinions welcome on my full back design photos.. Unfortunately, all of our testing happens during the race, problems are usually triage-d mid race and fixed before the next event.

Edited by Team Infiniti
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3 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Going ahead with setup as shown but opinions welcome on my full back design photos.. Unfortunately, all of our testing happens during the race, problems are usually triage-d mid race and fixed before the next event.

 

Ed, I would strongly recommend cutting the plate back so that the inside disc face is not shielded.  Depending on how close that plate is to the disc, it will radiate a certain amount of heat back onto that inside face causing a temperature differential between the inside and outside faces.  That's not good.  Temperature differential is the #1 cause of disc cracking...by a wide margin.  Its important to keep the temperature of the disc as even as possible.

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5 hours ago, Snorman said:

We're ducting to the center of the rotor/hub as well. We'll see how things go in testing at Sebring but hoping to have plenty of air pumping on there from the front 5" inlets to 3" ducting. 

S.

 

5" inlets back down to 3" is a great idea. I'll look into that while I have everything ripped apart and moving the ducts anyways.

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2 hours ago, pintodave said:

 

5" inlets back down to 3" is a great idea. I'll look into that while I have everything ripped apart and moving the ducts anyways.

For us it was by default. The OEM fog light openings are 5". We are using sheetmetal reducers to 3". They actually fit quite good. We'll rivet them in and put some screening to smooth out airflow and see how they work. 

iCLXEs.jpg

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Back in my professional road race days 30 years ago we looked at what the Indy car guys were doing on the tight road courses. What you guys have shown here is pretty much what we found. Our cars started to suffer rear axle bearing failures. We ran uprights that were cast aluminum and were hollow. We originally thought that it was brake cooling but it didn't stop the failures.

 

So I Designed a set of scoops for the uprights. We were running Swift chassis with full body work in Sports  2000. The scoop on the bottom of the upright hole under the bearing faced forward and the upper hole had a duct that faced the rear to create maximum flow. Never lost another bearing. I wish I could figure out a way to change the grease in the sealed bearings without them puking afterwards. Maybe I can find replacement seals that won't die.  If we can solve temps,  poor quality lubrication and poor quality bearings, we could solve these reliability problems.  Also found out 100% of our CV failures were related to lubrication. We used Redline CV grease and it worked great. We pulled axles after every ? laps and repacked the CV's.

 

If anyone has any grease recommendations that are less than 30 years old it would gratefully appreciated. I have spare brand new axles and every one of them will be tore down and repacked. Not to mention the ones already in the cars. Another issue we ran across sometime is brake issues after pit stops. 5 minute fuel stops could do what we found. The brakes would heat soak and either boil the fluid in the caliper and cause a soft pedal or the rotors would crack. Also found out that single finger print on a flywheel or rotor would leave a blue spot and cause chatter. multi finger prints cause massive chatter under hard braking. I must really like you guys because these are things I keep to myself. But I believe you guys have and will return the favor... 

Edited by SpeedMaverick
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