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GT86 in chump?


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Hi,

 

What do you think about the GT86 in chump?

 

200hp and ~2600 race weight seem to be on par with many other cars.  One concern is the 13.2 fuel tank.

 

Hard to find a car for less than $5000 so would be an expensive build.

 

Never driven one but seems like a Miata-ish car but with a roof and better looking.

 

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Well it would seem to me that with no limits on wheel and tire size, no limits on weight reduction, and all the free suspension and tuning stuff, and 15.7 gallons of fuel that is allowed, that this car would have to be about 540 or 550 points.    I would think that raced weight on one of these could be 2300 or less. 

 

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1 minute ago, JDChristianson said:

Well it would seem to me that with no limits on wheel and tire size, no limits on weight reduction, and all the free suspension and tuning stuff, and 15.7 gallons of fuel that is allowed, that this car would have to be about 540 or 550 points.    I would think that raced weight on one of these could be 2300 or less. 

 

 

I was thinking 530 or 540, pretty much the same thing you are. 

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looks like the honda might be a little heavier.

 

maybe its point value isn't high enough?  :)

 

I should add a disclaimer that I think it would take quite a bit of research and thought about where it should really come in.  I'm just speculating from the hip, so to speak,   based on my perception that these are pretty capable cars.   

 

Edited by JDChristianson
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But are they durable? Also easyish to work on? Any big weaknesses?

 

I'd think if they're BMW/Miata solid all the way around they'd be up in the mid 500's or so, but if X parts just dont last, could probably argue it a bit lower...

 

There's a couple of 2010's on the online lookup (Mini Cooper, some Chryslers I think too?), but that's the newest I know of. Can always submit it to the Board and see what they say :)

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42 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

k,   based on my perception that these are pretty capable cars.   

 

 

1 minute ago, Wittenauer Racing said:

But are they durable? Also easyish to work on? Any big weaknesses?

 

I'd think if they're BMW/Miata solid all the way around they'd be up in the mid 500's or so, but if X parts just dont last, could probably argue it a bit lower...

 

There's a couple of 2010's on the online lookup (Mini Cooper, some Chryslers I think too?), but that's the newest I know of. Can always submit it to the Board and see what they say :)

 

Seems like they need an oil-cooler and early models had some issues. Surprises me,  I would think that a 5 year old half exciting Toyobaru would be super reliable.

 

 

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On 8/15/2018 at 10:18 AM, turbogrill said:

Hi,

 

What do you think about the GT86 in chump?

 

200hp and ~2600 race weight seem to be on par with many other cars.  One concern is the 13.2 fuel tank.

 

Hard to find a car for less than $5000 so would be an expensive build.

 

Never driven one but seems like a Miata-ish car but with a roof and better looking.

 

 

 

I race a 2013 FRS  in SCCA (Touring 4 and STL) and NASA (PTD)   - Ballasted to meet T4 class is 2975, but I don't remember how much ballast I've put in it. 

 

It'll do a 2:32ish at Sebring with a semi-capable driver,  which is about 2 seconds faster than what Pobst did in KSR's car.    SCCA BOP'd it with a restrictor and added weight vs. the NC MX5. 

 

  Knowing that, I would think it's a bit above the Champcar class,  but that's just my opinion.       

 

 

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by the time you do all the free and 2x mods this would murder the field and require the cost to compete in champ to go up.  bam is on the money IMHO.   

 

I expect someday this will be a reasonable car for champ, but by then an E36 will be a 400 point car and this might be the new baseline 500 point car.

Edited by theblue
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25 minutes ago, bam said:

 

 

I race a 2013 FRS  in SCCA (Touring 4 and STL) and NASA (PTD)   - Ballasted to meet T4 class is 2975, but I don't remember how much ballast I've put in it. 

 

It'll do a 2:32ish at Sebring with a semi-capable driver,  which is about 2 seconds faster than what Pobst did in KSR's car.    SCCA BOP'd it with a restrictor and added weight vs. the NC MX5. 

 

  Knowing that, I would think it's a bit above the Champcar class,  but that's just my opinion.       

 

 

 

What mods and tires does that consist of?

Any knowledge of fuel mileage at race speeds - aka will it go 2 hours at 90% or higher pace?

Also, will it hold together? Subaru's in general have not been perennial strong performers so far in champ.

Edited by Huggy
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7 minutes ago, Huggy said:

 

What mods and tires does that consist of?

Any knowledge of fuel mileage at race speeds - aka will it go 2 hours at 90% or higher pace?

Also, will it hold together? Subaru's in general have not been perennial strong performers so far in champ.

 

If it's 600lbs heavier than a chump version and two seconds faster with an amateur driver vs. a pro in a top champcar doesn't that say enough?

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21 minutes ago, Huggy said:

 

What mods and tires does that consist of?

Any knowledge of fuel mileage at race speeds - aka will it go 2 hours at 90% or higher pace?

Also, will it hold together? Subaru's in general have not been perennial strong performers so far in champ.

 

 

T4 is a showroom stock class, so no power specific modifications (Oil cooler is correct).  However, I would agree that there are some mods that would exist to increase the VPI, and that the laptime is not on compliant rubber. 

 

I'm probably not the best person to ask as it relates to comparing the GCR/BCCR rulebook etc..

 

I was just posting from experience that it is a great racecar, just not quite champcar material, although I'm no expert.  

 

Very balanced and fun, I hope some day there is a Spec class in some series like there is in Australia. 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, theblue said:

 

If it's 600lbs heavier than a chump version and two seconds faster with an amateur driver vs. a pro in a top champcar doesn't that say enough?

 

Not necessarily, but based on the reply posted below yours, its looking like a very fast car.

 

No offence meant, but I would like to have a full picture of the information before making a snap judgement.  

 

I have personally raced in Champ against two GT86s (as EC), and neither "blew away the field" so to speak.  One had an LS even.

 

 

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   They are a very good car, with our current rules I'm pretty sure they would end up very light. They would be on huge tires compared to stock, they would have been to a dyno and tuned. (probably 15 or 20hp gain from stock) They would have all the other free crap( I mean stuff) that we all get...bushings, springs, brakes, etc.  These cars would be very very good.  

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Not with our tire specs. Add 10 seconds at least and your in the ball park.

 

 

16 hours ago, bam said:

 

 

I race a 2013 FRS  in SCCA (Touring 4 and STL) and NASA (PTD)   - Ballasted to meet T4 class is 2975, but I don't remember how much ballast I've put in it. 

 

It'll do a 2:32ish at Sebring with a semi-capable driver,  which is about 2 seconds faster than what Pobst did in KSR's car.    SCCA BOP'd it with a restrictor and added weight vs. the NC MX5. 

 

  Knowing that, I would think it's a bit above the Champcar class,  but that's just my opinion.       

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Cam Benty said:

Not with our tire specs. Add 10 seconds at least and your in the ball park.

 

 

 

That'd be interesting to find out.  I personally don't think its as big a difference as one might think.  For one, most of the SCCA or NASA classes would be restricted on wheel and tire size far more than a Champcar prepped car is.    Skinny Hoosiers vs Big Fat "200"tw    Being several hundred pounds lighter is a huge advantage to the Champcar prep.  It'd be a fun test

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44 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

That'd be interesting to find out.  I personally don't think its as big a difference as one might think.  For one, most of the SCCA or NASA classes would be restricted on wheel and tire size far more than a Champcar prepped car is.    Skinny Hoosiers vs Big Fat "200"tw    Being several hundred pounds lighter is a huge advantage to the Champcar prep.  It'd be a fun test

 

i've seen FRSs go pretty quick around sebring on a DOT tire.    I think its not only about lap times.  You have advanced ABS and Traction control as well, something no other cars in Champcar have.  If they were to start allowing cars such as the FRS, they might as well change the name to AER.

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The new crop of 200tw tires --> Hoosier A7s, based on my recent experience, would be worth 3-5 seconds per lap with the same tire size and no other changes.   Drop the weight and do some power adders and it'll likely make up for that differential.  Suspension changes to keep all mods at 0 pts probably a wash compared to T4 specs.  

 

I think it would be a fun car, and would have potential to chase down the field a few times over the entire race distance.   Build it / bring it.

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Not a surprising outcome. The 86 rear or gear box is not engineered for that kind of TQ. 

   There are a few 86's that run in the Australian improved production series that are bad fast. They run a turbo 6 motor I am not familiar with. That particular model can run with the V8's At the tighter tracks. It would be fun to see someone build that unit and see how it does in our series. 

 

12 hours ago, Jab31169 said:

The last GT86 I saw on track with chump had a big v8 in it and sprayed gear oil all over my windshield.  With the stock motor and the free mods, car would be a 550 or better.  I doubt it would make 2 hours on 13 gallons, would have to swap in a cell and swirl pots to get close IMO

 

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