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Need less brake torque? Raybestos brake compound selection...


Gearhead_42
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tl;dr: What lower torque Raybestos matches well in the rear with ST43 fronts, in an endurance race setting?

 

In the realm of problems to have, I suppose this is a good one... I'm running a "stock" piston size/booster setup for a 300ZXTT on my car, with the front calipers changed out to Wilwood units of equal piston size for the economy of replacements (pads are 30%-40% cheaper than the stock shape) along with 350Z track edition rotors (again, more mass, similar price but better availability than ZTT units).  The rears are stock twin piston Z car pieces and vented stock ZTT blanks.  3" ducts to the inside on the rotors on the front.

 

I had issues with pad transfer with this setup and a different staggered F/R compound, so I switched to ST43 all around at my last race.  Fixed all the issue I had with transfer, warped rotors, and severe judder on heavy braking, so everything is good... except now I seem to be *too cool*.  The brakes squeal to wake the dead!  Everything I'm told says that's a sure sign your ST43 isn't as hot as it "wants" to be for ideal operation.  I could in theory block/remove the front ducting, but that seems like a patch job and doesn't help put heat in the rears, which are ALSO screeching from low temps. 

 

My thought instead was to change out the rear pads to something similar to the ST43 but with lower torque and lower temperature range, to transfer some more of the work to the front end, get the heat where I need it, and still maintain the balance and feel my drivers enjoy.  Braking performance is at least as good or as my prior setups, just loud as all hell and obviously not performing up to potential.  Pedal feel is *slightly* reduced vs the prior compound but I'll take it to not feel like the car is going to shake apart under me. Pad wear is minimal (think at least as minimal as @pintodave and his new ducted setup that he shared pictures of post VIR) and rotors are smooth and unchecked after 10 or so hours of racing.

 

Thoughts? (you know you're oversharing when you put the tl;dr at the BEGINNING of the post ;-) )

 

 

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According to this chart, 42's. http://racetrackdriving.com/tech/raybestos-brake-pad-compounds/raybestos-friction-charts.pdf

Another: https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/images/raycomp2008_11_06_03_19_04.pdf

 

The Porterfield people I order them from are pretty helpful and knowledgeable.

Edited by ross2004
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2 minutes ago, ross2004 said:

According to this chart, 42's. http://racetrackdriving.com/tech/raybestos-brake-pad-compounds/raybestos-friction-charts.pdf

Another: https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/images/raycomp2008_11_06_03_19_04.pdf

 

The Porterfield people I order them from are pretty helpful and knowledgeable.

 

That's a gooood chart, thanks!  I'm phone averse (isn't that why the internet was invented?), but I may break down give porterfield a call and get some conversations started.

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8 minutes ago, Gearhead_42 said:

I'm phone averse (isn't that why the internet was invented?),

Me too, but she's a friendly lady and very helpful (I think her name is Wendy). She even called me once when I ordered a "non-traditional" compound setup for my e30 to confirm that it was what I really wanted. West coast, so wait a little while.

Edited by ross2004
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@Gearhead_42- I happened to read some great advice about ST43's and what to run w/ them on the lemons forum that has proved to be entirely true for us and our platform. We race an E30. The rear pad shapes for an e30 race pad compound are sometimes insanely more expensive than the cost for the fronts. That was the case w/ ST43's.

 

The forum advice was to run ST43 front and Porterfield R4E rear. We did that and got mirroring wear patterns and rates from front to rear and insanely long hours out of them. I mean like 40-50 track or race hours. So, for us, the pricing, wear and bias all worked out really well for our car. Not sure what you all race but we loved it on the E30. On the same tires and brake compounds on our spec miata, I thought the ST43 were a little too grabby and locked up the fronts too much. Sold the car before I could try a different raybestos compound there though. 

 

Best part for me was that both brands are available directly from Porterfield. I called them, placed the order and asked if there was a racer discount for getting my chumpcar ready. The person put me on hold, asked somebody and came back and said they do a 15% racer discount. 

 

Let us know what you come up with. Good luck!

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7 minutes ago, bendawson3 said:

@Gearhead_42- I happened to read some great advice about ST43's and what to run w/ them on the lemons forum that has proved to be entirely true for us and our platform. We race an E30. The rear pad shapes for an e30 race pad compound are sometimes insanely more expensive than the cost for the fronts. That was the case w/ ST43's.

 

The forum advice was to run ST43 front and Porterfield R4E rear. We did that and got mirroring wear patterns and rates from front to rear and insanely long hours out of them. I mean like 40-50 track or race hours. So, for us, the pricing, wear and bias all worked out really well for our car. Not sure what you all race but we loved it on the E30. On the same tires and brake compounds on our spec miata, I thought the ST43 were a little too grabby and locked up the fronts too much. Sold the car before I could try a different raybestos compound there though. 

 

Best part for me was that both brands are available directly from Porterfield. I called them, placed the order and asked if there was a racer discount for getting my chumpcar ready. The person put me on hold, asked somebody and came back and said they do a 15% racer discount. 

 

Let us know what you come up with. Good luck!

How do you like that setup on the E30 vs PFC08s?

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We started out with 11” front rotors and Hawk HT10 pads with 9” rear rotors and Hawk blue.  Then the brake bias had enough range to balance the system.  

 

When we went to the 13” front rotors and different pad size we had too much rear brake that the bias could not dial in so we switched out the rear to Hawk HPS which still had a decent heat rating but less grip and that brought the balance within range of the bias adjuster.  

 

At Utah we tried the ST43 in front on the 13” rotor and they had a little less grip than the HT10 so they needed a little more pedal pressure.  They still matched well with the HPS we have in the rear on the 9” rotor.  

Edited by Ron_e
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  • 4 weeks later...

We have been running the ST43 Fronts and the Porterfield R4E in the rear (stock calipers and Advance auto parts rotors) for the last two races with good success.  Ours NEVER squeal though (even cold).  Perhaps our 3000lb mass just puts that much more heat in the pads.  We have also done the ST43 with Hawk HP+ in the rears with no discernible difference in bite or feel.  Just our .02

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On 8/17/2018 at 9:49 AM, Gearhead_42 said:

Speaking of "knowledge" and the power is has, anyone have a recommendation for temperature indicators for brake systems?  Are the insanely priced color changing paints the best solution, even at $80 an ounce?!?  

 

Paint and stickers are good for determining peak temps, but I feel you're far better off taking temps on pit road as an "average" temp and determining changes based on that.  Longacre has a tire probe for like $150 and a brake probe attachment for an extra $100.  That would be my best "bang for your buck" suggestion.

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