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Official 2018 Gingerman Cookie Cutter Classic Results

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6 minutes ago, zack_280 said:

@Crank Yankers Racing

It's hard to tell, but could be kill switch related. You can see the gauge LEDs on the low mounted gauge flickering while driving (which is normal) but always on.  Then when the car cuts out, it looks like they turn completely off for a second.  I did not see that happen before the cutout.  Then you can see them turn off and on when the driver is cycling the kill switch.  I'm still leaning toward kill switch.  There may be some other important electrical connection that is intermittently opening.

Those LED's are the AFR gage.  It is possible that we are just seeing the --- that would be occuring during no combustion happening.  It may look like they are out.

 

If my hypothesis about those LED's is correct, then I would say the AFR was showing REALLY lean right before it cut out.

 

Reasons why it could show that:

- No fuel to injectors

       - fuel system issue

- Injectors not firing

        - TPS issue

        - ECU issue

        - other sensor issue

        - problem with power to any or all of the above

- Off throttle

 

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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Just now, wvumtnbkr said:

If my hypothesis about those LED's is correct, then I woudl say the AFR was showing REALLY lean right before it cut out.

Could be, but my AFR gauge still stays on even when extremely lean.  So seeing it cut off completely makes me think it's losing power.


Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about.

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No, you might be right.... I watched the video again.  Even when he is off throttle it still read "something".

 

You may be on to something.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

@Crank Yankers Racing What happens if you don't cycle the kill switch?  Meaning, it seemed like it would take a few cycles and some time to cycle.  If you waited that same amount of time without cycling, would it come back?

 

If cycling the kill switch "clears it" for a bit, does shutting off the "ignition only" switch clear it?  

 

Could be ECU power.  Could be sensor power.  Could be ignition coil power.  

 

What were the AFR's doing when this happened?

 

AFS are completely lean. The car is inoperable if you don't hit the kill switch. You will come to a stop and have to restart the car. 

 

Btw fuel pressure stays high and doesn't drop out. 

 

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48 minutes ago, zack_280 said:

@Crank Yankers Racing

It's hard to tell, but could be kill switch related. You can see the gauge LEDs on the low mounted gauge flickering while driving (which is normal) but always on.  Then when the car cuts out, it looks like they turn completely off for a second.  I did not see that happen before the cutout.  Then you can see them turn off and on when the driver is cycling the kill switch.  I'm still leaning toward kill switch.  There may be some other important electrical connection that is intermittently opening.

 

This happened last year at Mid Ohio with the ECU. Changed to stock ECU and fixed the problem. Working with MS and some other people to see what the logs are telling us. This is a different kill switch than previous as well. 

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1 hour ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Those LED's are the AFR gage.  It is possible that we are just seeing the --- that would be occuring during no combustion happening.  It may look like they are out.

 

If my hypothesis about those LED's is correct, then I would say the AFR was showing REALLY lean right before it cut out.

 

Reasons why it could show that:

- No fuel to injectors

       - fuel system issue

- Injectors not firing

        - TPS issue

        - ECU issue

        - other sensor issue

        - problem with power to any or all of the above

- Off throttle

 

Our AFM issue was similar... at high RPM the potentiometer on the air flapper would sweep to a dead spot and tell the ECU incorrect info about airflow, which caused it to instantly go lean and misfire (over 5500 rpm). 

 

You are running a MAF, so it isn’t that issue, but it seems to have similar symptoms. 

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@Crank Yankers Racing Does the problem always start while loaded up and turning right.  It seems that way in the video.

 

Check the main power leads in the engine compartment, and the chassis to engine ground wire on the right side motor mount.

 

Is there anyway to monitor voltage?  I have seen and experienced ECU and ignition cutout when you hit a low voltage threshold.

The ECU simply cannot fire the ignition anymore.

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1 hour ago, enginerd said:

You are running a MAF, so it isn’t that issue, but it seems to have similar symptoms. 

 

Could still be a MAF issue. I'd start there.

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@Crank Yankers Racing you say this cropped up after a new killswitch?

 

We had a helluva time chasing a loss of crank position signal on our miata AX car running MS; many of our symptoms seem similar to yours.  Should be able to detect in the log but will take a little dissecting of the data.  Came down to a shielding issue on the signal wire and a filter setting in the MS.  Could the new switch be introducing new interference that wasn't there before?  Maybe you were able to get away without isolation/shielding before that you aren't now?

 

Just some ideas  

 

Good luck! took us a full year to track it down with help from the guys at DIYAutotune & MS...gotta love modern technology!

 

You might send your video and info to Andy Whittle.  A link to his youtube page is below.  He's been a real help to us and knows a TON about MS and tuning, in case your contacts are getting nowhere.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ2TeodWDUE

 

Edited by BollingerChump

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4 hours ago, TRM-BobK said:

@Crank Yankers Racing Does the problem always start while loaded up and turning right.  It seems that way in the video.

 

Check the main power leads in the engine compartment, and the chassis to engine ground wire on the right side motor mount.

 

Is there anyway to monitor voltage?  I have seen and experienced ECU and ignition cutout when you hit a low voltage threshold.

The ECU simply cannot fire the ignition anymore.

 

Doesn't matter if it is right or left and we monitor voltage on our AiM MXL2

 

3 hours ago, Hayne said:

 

Could still be a MAF issue. I'd start there.

I have switched out the IAT sensor and still happens.

 

2 hours ago, BollingerChump said:

@Crank Yankers Racing you say this cropped up after a new killswitch?

 

We had a helluva time chasing a loss of crank position signal on our miata AX car running MS; many of our symptoms seem similar to yours.  Should be able to detect in the log but will take a little dissecting of the data.  Came down to a shielding issue on the signal wire and a filter setting in the MS.  Could the new switch be introducing new interference that wasn't there before?  Maybe you were able to get away without isolation/shielding before that you aren't now?

 

Just some ideas  

 

Good luck! took us a full year to track it down with help from the guys at DIYAutotune & MS...gotta love modern technology!

 

You might send your video and info to Andy Whittle.  A link to his youtube page is below.  He's been a real help to us and knows a TON about MS and tuning, in case your contacts are getting nowhere.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ2TeodWDUE

 

I was just stating that I have changed kill switch and it is still happening.  Heck we even rewired the whole car and still have the issue.  I'll check out the video.  Right now I am just stuck and just trying to find some ideas.

 

2 hours ago, scottyk said:

Stock is best!

 

Stock is too slow :)

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On 8/28/2018 at 11:00 AM, BionicPhil said:

Car 128 - Hakuna Miata race report:  We did fairly well for our first Champcar race. Our team has been racing Lemons for 3 years, decided to try something marginally less silly.

 

We were the lucky dogs who got spot #1 for the start on Saturday. 

 

40202743_10209285392450895_5413569701219

 

Car was running well in the damp.  We are running Azenis, and they had two previous race weekends on them, both soaking wet.  We figured we had enough rubber to run all day, then we'd switch to our previously lightly-used BFGs.

 

As the track dried, our times came down, when I handed the car over to the wife at 10:45am, our best time was 1:59.  She got that down to a 1:57.  As it got warmer, she handed the car over to our "hot shoe who doesn't know any better," Brad.  He turns a 1:56, and again, we're amazed that he's not using 4th gear ANYWHERE except the back straight from turn 10 - turn 11.  I'm pretty sure a stock Miata doesn't make usable power above 7,500 rpm (eek), but he revs it like crazy.  He also gets the least time on a full tank of fuel.  Odd, that.

 

We put our last driver in, Tom, and he holds position, running 1:57's until the finish.  We finish day 1 in 15th spot. Not bad for a mostly stock Miata with some light suspension work.  Aside from being told our fire extinguisher wasn't large enough (quick trip to Menards...) we had a clean day.

 

Day 2:  We switch to our back-up BFGs, as the new pavement in turns 1, 2, 3, and 5 ATE our tires (great grip, though).  

 

It turns out our backup BFGs were rock hard.  Heat cycling them, and then letting them sit for a year is bad.  Who knew?  My best time was a 2:02.  I radioed back that the tires were, ahem, sub-optimal, I was being passed by everyone.  Brought the car in for the first fuel stop in 33rd place after starting last (damn lucky dog on day 1).  

 

Veronica went out.  She was rather vocal about the sucktasticness of the BFGs.  She was getting wheel spin on acceleration.  IN A STOCK MIATA.  She radioed in to find the least-bald Azenis we had left, and put them on the rear of the car.  Her best time was a 2:04, but as her stint went on, she dropped to a 2:10.

 

We did the tire swap, and bolted Brad in the car.  We've got rock-hard BFGs Rivals on the front, nearly bald Azenis on the rear of the car.

 

On his second lap, Brad turns a 1:57.  Then a 1:56.  Then a 1:55.2.  Wow.  New recipe for how to get the most out of used-up tires.

 

After the red flags, we put Tom in as our last driver.  He had some hard contact with that green, cut-down, Gen 2 RX-7 thing (not sure of team name), that put a tire donut mark on our car hard enough to dent the sills.  He claims he left room.  Oh well, another dent, add it to the list.

 

Overall, the odd-ball tire setup (and a ton of attrition) got us back to 17th.

 

We'll be back for Road America, with 8 new tires.

 

- Phil 

 

 

Sorry about that contact! I was in the IPF Racing Supra (mk3 with 1UZ swap and giant wing, used the be orange and green striped) coming into 10. He definitely left room, I just let the front end wash away from me because I came in too hot. Tried to find you guys after the race to apologize, but didn't have any luck. You guys looked great out there though!

 

Thanks to everyone for the great weekend and Crank Yankers for the wonderful beer! We had our best weekend yet taking D class wins both days. Now if only we could figure out our fuel pump issues....

 

P.S. We need more D class cars...

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Welp, started pulling motor apart for the pending replacement.  The engine did more than just displace a bunch of water out the tailpipe down the back straight on Sunday...    

 

This was in the throttle body - a nice slurry of aluminum chunks/bits/paste, oil and water.  And there are things that rattle in the intake manifold, some chunks on top of a couple of intake valves and one intake valve that is visibly bent.  And a gallon or so of water poured out of the oil pan before water started coming out.  And the ICV was full of an oil/water mix.  There is now a giant oily mess covering everything on the intake side of the engine.  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the issue isn't just a headgasket that finally gave up the ghost after the unknown number of miles on this engine...  I'm guessing there is an exhaust valve stem sitting there wondering where the rest of it went.  

 

40748184_10160876272935230_9856894625141

 

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3 hours ago, NigelStu said:

Welp, started pulling motor apart for the pending replacement.  The engine did more than just displace a bunch of water out the tailpipe down the back straight on Sunday...    

 

This was in the throttle body - a nice slurry of aluminum chunks/bits/paste, oil and water.  And there are things that rattle in the intake manifold, some chunks on top of a couple of intake valves and one intake valve that is visibly bent.  And a gallon or so of water poured out of the oil pan before water started coming out.  And the ICV was full of an oil/water mix.  There is now a giant oily mess covering everything on the intake side of the engine.  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the issue isn't just a headgasket that finally gave up the ghost after the unknown number of miles on this engine...  I'm guessing there is an exhaust valve stem sitting there wondering where the rest of it went.  

 

 

 

Had a similar outcome with our M52 earlier this year: One smashed spark plug, aluminum bits in the intake/exhaust/oil filter, water in the sump when draining the oil. Haven't pulled the head off yet.

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